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Which car / what mods required for HPDE

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  • Which car / what mods required for HPDE

    I am always shopping for cars. one requirement is that it doesn't require a ton of money for mods to run at HPDE.

    We all know if you drive slow enough, any car can run HPDE w/o issues. so let's assume you are high intermediate / advance driver, driving on a brake demanding courses (Street of Willow don't even require brakes ). and the car should be fast enough to not holding up traffic in high intermediate or advanced session (holding up Oli is fine, he should be running his own session any way )

    I just bought an 08 WRX. after a bit of forum searches, it turns out hub / bearing breaks if you HPDE. my friend has a S2k, everything stock except for brake pads, and is fast.

    I am familiar with Miata, so I will start with that.

    stock power Miata
    - need good brake pads / brake fluid.
    - big radiator - especially running in desert.
    - alignment.
    - bigger front bar or remove rear bar (stock Miata oversteers)

    I guess that's why you see a ton of stock power Miata at every event

    turbo Miata
    - all the above plus:
    - coolant reroute
    - extractor hood
    - big brake kit / brake duct
    - clutch / diff / 6 speed trans (stock start breaking at 200hp)
    - oil cooler
    - numerous turbo reliability item. like turbo stud safety wired, metal turbo drain, standalone ECU, etc.., these are not cheap.

    this is why you don't see a lot of turbo Miata at HPDE. I own one, bit of headache to run on track, so I bought a stock engine Miata for HPDE. all I do is basically check engine oil and tire pressure.

    I would like to hear some popular HPDE cars, like RX8, 350Z, STI, Evo (I heard it costs a ton to dial out understeer), S2k, M3, Boxster, Corvette, Civic, NSX, Mini, Elise/Exige, 911, etc. any particular weakness to make them trackworthy ?
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 05-22-2008, 05:49 PM.
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  • #2
    Manly's setup...stock Elise with upgraded brake pads and fluid.
    That was my setup with an Exige.

    They are very sensitive to alignment. as long as you get one with at least the sport pack you are good to go.
    AJ - Akua Solutions - #128 Lotus Exige - MonkeyWrench Racing - Carbonetic - Innovative Mounts - Toyo Tires - JRZ Suspension - TW Research Development

    Comment


    • #3
      Manly's Elise is only with brake pads and fluid ?

      and he won the Time Attack ?
      S1 Supermiata - 220whp
      13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
      17 GT350R
      03 Miata Club Sport
      96 NSX
      06 EVO MR
      15 Mini Cooper S
      Beck 550 Spyder

      Comment


      • #4
        He has a decat and stage 2 exhuast as well. neither of those add power. Just sound better and save 5-10 pounds.

        He has a seat and harness.

        15/16" wheels with Toyo R888s...time attack was won on R1Rs(less sticky than stock lotus tires)


        I think thats about it. pretty damn impressive.

        basically all you need to change is the fluid. The stock pads are pretty damn good just pricey. Everything else is convenience.
        Last edited by zjchaser; 05-22-2008, 04:55 PM.
        AJ - Akua Solutions - #128 Lotus Exige - MonkeyWrench Racing - Carbonetic - Innovative Mounts - Toyo Tires - JRZ Suspension - TW Research Development

        Comment


        • #5
          100% bone stock S2000 out of factory is good enough run BW#13 with 2'10s and SOWS 1'30s, that's about less than 1s slower than Emilio's NA miata, so good enough to run intermediate~advance group

          but good pads + fluid is always good to run more consistant time

          then next step, with non-staggered wheels, decent suspension, and areo wing (about $4500 total), you can run BW#13 at 2'03s pace, 1'59s with r-comp

          btw stock S2000 CR can run 2'05s at BW#13, with areo, mild suspension and tire upgrade from factory

          EVO also shouldn't be hard to run fast time with minimal upgrades, boost/reflash up to 300whp, and leave your suspension upgrade to Robi, then you can easily run good laptimes

          Lotus is also good, you need zero investment and you can run fast times, and the weight save you tires, brakes and all kinds of maintainances
          Last edited by Jaku; 05-23-2008, 11:59 AM.
          Jaku 峠

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Jaku View Post
            then next step, with non-staggered wheels, decent suspension, and areo wing (about $4500 total), you can run BW#13 at 2'03s pace, 1'59s with r-comp
            that is damn impressive. a turbo Miata (with wing, carbon fiber door/fender, full mods) that got podium at Time Attack did it in 2 minutes flat.

            Eric's Evo did 1:23 at SOW, he claim it is with basic mods. may be Eric will chime in. that is only 1-2 second slower than Oli in a T1 Corvette !! and Eric is a noobie !! is it the car or the driver ?
            Last edited by bellwilliam; 05-23-2008, 09:53 AM.
            S1 Supermiata - 220whp
            13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
            17 GT350R
            03 Miata Club Sport
            96 NSX
            06 EVO MR
            15 Mini Cooper S
            Beck 550 Spyder

            Comment


            • #7
              Corvette...

              Oli feel free to correct me here.

              The vette forum would lead you to believe that you need/want the following:

              brake ducts & spindles $400
              Bigger brakes $1500 (reduce taper & pad costs)
              Coilovers $2000
              Sways $800
              Big Radiator/Oil cooler $1100 (300F+ oil temps easy)
              Accusump $500 (prevent boom from crappy oil baffles)
              Big Tranny & Diff Coolers $4000
              Output shafts $460
              Better wheel bearings $?
              Last edited by robburgoon; 05-23-2008, 10:13 PM.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by robburgoon View Post
                Corvette...

                Oli feel free to correct me here.

                The vette forum would lead you to believe that you need/want the following:

                brake ducts & spindles $400
                Bigger brakes $1500 (reduce taper & pad costs)
                Coilovers $2000
                Sways $800
                Big Radiator/Oil cooler $1100 (300F+ oil temps easy)
                Accusump $500 (prevent boom from crappy oil baffles)
                Big Tranny & Diff Coolers $4000
                Output shafts $460
                Better wheel bearings $?
                Big Tranny & Diff Coolers $4000 - that's a typo, right ?
                Big Radiator/Oil cooler $1100 (300F+ oil temps easy) - I've heard about this. don't sound too safe.
                why the coilover and sway ? is there a potential issue with stock ?

                Corvette crosses everyone's mind one time or the other for a great HPDE car. but is it not as trackable as let's say S2k ? anyone we know that tracks a pretty stock Corvette ? fast yet not too many mods ? a stock C6 Z06 turned a 2 minutes at Buttonwillow on runflat (by Road and Track), how come no one took one and ran Time Attack with it ?
                S1 Supermiata - 220whp
                13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
                17 GT350R
                03 Miata Club Sport
                96 NSX
                06 EVO MR
                15 Mini Cooper S
                Beck 550 Spyder

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by bellwilliam View Post
                  Corvette crosses everyone's mind one time or the other for a great HPDE car. but is it not as trackable as let's say S2k ? anyone we know that tracks a pretty stock Corvette ? fast yet not too many mods ? a stock C6 Z06 turned a 2 minutes at Buttonwillow on runflat (by Road and Track), how come no one took one and ran Time Attack with it ?

                  Oli's Corvette is relatively stock, and he ran a 1:56 at Buttonwillow on Hoosiers.
                  "The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses" -Mario Andretti

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by thefrush View Post
                    Oli's Corvette is relatively stock, and he ran a 1:56 at Buttonwillow on Hoosiers.
                    Oli's Corvette is not even close to stock. look at how many stickers he got !! (but no Trackhq sticker )
                    Last edited by bellwilliam; 05-23-2008, 11:41 PM.
                    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
                    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
                    17 GT350R
                    03 Miata Club Sport
                    96 NSX
                    06 EVO MR
                    15 Mini Cooper S
                    Beck 550 Spyder

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      new Z06 does clocks 2'01.0 at BW13

                      how about GTR R35 clocks 1'56.9 at the same config

                      which config did Oli ran 1'56? I think Oli's vett can run 1'55 at BW13 if he ran 1'22 at SOWS

                      Mine's R34 ran 1'20.0 at SOWS and 1'52.0 at BW13 with only R comp

                      I think Redline makes Z06 not qualified for street class, not many European and American cars participate TA
                      Jaku 峠

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        And not taking anything away from Oli's times, but we were running 14 and not 13. Without the bus stop I'm guessing (but otherwise the same as 13) I'm guessing it's at least 3-4 seconds quicker.

                        Steve

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by bellwilliam View Post
                          Big Tranny & Diff Coolers $4000 - that's a typo, right ?
                          Big Radiator/Oil cooler $1100 (300F+ oil temps easy) - I've heard about this. don't sound too safe.
                          why the coilover and sway ? is there a potential issue with stock ?

                          Corvette crosses everyone's mind one time or the other for a great HPDE car. but is it not as trackable as let's say S2k ? anyone we know that tracks a pretty stock Corvette ? fast yet not too many mods ? a stock C6 Z06 turned a 2 minutes at Buttonwillow on runflat (by Road and Track), how come no one took one and ran Time Attack with it ?
                          Awesome mechanically driven coolers $4000. no type-o.
                          http://www.lgmotorsports.com/catalog...oducts_id=1681

                          coilovers:
                          If you want more spring rate. You want coilovers. Leaf springs are fine, but aftermarket leaf springs are $$$ and take up a bit of room in the trailer compared to a few coils.

                          swaybars: optional perhaps, but I find with heavier springs, I like heavier sways also.

                          C6 Z06 I THINK can get away with less mods. All of its coolers are bigger (read effective) than C6 Z51 IIRC.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I will speak to how my car is set-up since I know it first-hand. My car is a 2002 C5 Corvette Z06. She recently dyno'd at 368, 369 and 371 rear wheel horsepower. Torque was around 350. When I finish a race almost out of gas I weigh around 3,340 Lbs with driver. Almost everyone thinks my car is more powerful and lighter than she is.

                            My car is closer to stock than highly modified. I must live by the rules as set forth for SCCA T1 classification.
                            1. My Drive train is completely stock. From air filter and air box to the tips of the exhaust headers my engine is completely stock. The SCCA does allow an engine tune that yields about 10-15 horsepower over stock at most.
                            2. In 2007 SCCA allowed T1 Corvettes to remove catalytic converters as we kept blowing them all out anyway due to our throttles being wide-open most of the time. So we can run straight pipes from the headers to the back, but I have aftermarket mufflers because I still have to make sound of 103db. Normally that is not a problem, but in cool damp days, sound travels better and it can be close.
                            3. The C5 does best in racing and heavy track use with T1 allowed auxilary coolers for engine oil, tranny and differential. I raced both days last weekend in temperatures exceeding 106 degrees. Last labor day I left the pre-grid at Buttonwillow and the temperature was 111 degrees! The car had no temperature problems.
                            4. My transmission and clutch, torque tube and the such is stock. They don't care what is in the differential, but it must be stock gear ratios.
                            5. The chassis is mostly stock, too. The car per the rules must have a full interior. I even need to race with the stock passenger seat and carpeting, dash and such in the car. That means when I race I must remove the passenger race seat you see at track days and put in the stock seat. The spirit of the "T" classes is for the car to look and be stock inside and out. I cannot even change my shift knob, seriously.
                            6. My brake system is all stock. That means stock calipers and stock rotors. I am open to go with any kind of brake pad I want.
                            7. My suspension is all stock as far as mounting points, pick-up points, etc. I am allowed to run either stock mono leaf springs or a specific GM performance mono leaf spring. Shocks are open to whatever I want. I can run stock sway bars or the specific part #'d GM performance sway bar. I cannot deviate from those part numbers.
                            8. I can use a GM performance part number camber plate to get up to -3.5 camber on the front and max -1.5 on the rear. Those are the limits in the rule book.
                            9. The only other things I can and must do to the car are the safety modifications like roll-cage, race seat and harness, window net and fire supression system.
                            10. My tire and wheel sizes are regulated to a couple of different sizes that came on either the C5 or C4 series stock Corvettes. I can run any rubber I want up to DOT-R. I cannot run slicks. The Kumho V710s or Hoosier A and R tires are the winningest tires.
                            11. My weight at the end of a race cannot be under 3280 lbs with me in the car. That means I have all my air-conditioning pumps, etc. still in the car. Even out of gas I am about 60 lbs over the minimum weight. Now if I can only lose 60 lbs myself. I don't think that will happen soon....


                            These rules apply to all the T1 Corvettes. Similar rules apply to the T1 vipers, Porsche GT3s, and Ferrari 360s and 430s.

                            A race ready/winning ready T1 Corvette can be purchased for about $30k plus or minus $5k. With this configuration you can go out and do a ton of track days and races each year and beat-up on almost anything else out on the track and the maintenance bill is not really very high. The big expense items in order of high to low are tires, brake pads, rotors and then hubs.
                            • Brake pads for the front are around $250. The rears last 3x longer than the front. The fronts will last 4 track days to 20+ depending upon the track and your driving.
                            • Rotors are about $35 each. The fronts will crack in 3-20 track days depending upon the track and your driving style.
                            • Hubs seem to last about 20 days. Track with curbing like BW are harder on them than CalSpeedway or WSIR. They simply start to crack.



                            That is my full report.




                            Oli
                            To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Thanks Oli!

                              Do you have standalone oil, tranny, and diff coolers then?

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