Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Forum Top Advertisment

Collapse

Corner Balancing and gas

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    Originally posted by fatbillybob View Post
    How much time does that buy you at either track?
    Every car is different. Suspension design matters, power matters, track matters. Of all the california tracks , I would say ACS, Thunderhill matters the most. If I were to pull a number out of my butt (it is impossible to do a back to back test) , I would say 1/2 second.

    Sometimes it isn't about the lap time. Say at a narrow track, there are only a few places you can pass. So you wedge or de-wedge certain corners to maximize your passing.
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by bellwilliam View Post
      So you wedge or de-wedge certain corners to maximize your passing.
      Is that because you are in low power miata and spend so much time in curves and can’t use brakes because it kills momentum? I have most successful passes using really good brakes and killing the other guy’s momentum but I got horsepower.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by fatbillybob View Post
        Is that because you are in low power miata and spend so much time in curves and can’t use brakes because it kills momentum? I have most successful passes using really good brakes and killing the other guy’s momentum but I got horsepower.
        Nothing to do with power to weight ratio. Tuning a w2w race car asymmetrically is common in classes where the cars and drivers are very evenly matched. You have to look outside of the usual places to find an advantage. If it is easy to block for most of a track after say T5, then set your car up to get ahead before T5 even if it makes your car a tick slower after T5.
        There are many more scenarios and examples but fundamentally if everything is evenly matched an asymmetric set up is usually the only weapon you have left to gain advantage.

        Further there are many ways in which an asymmetric set up can improve your chances in endurance racing. Then there is the technique of asymmetric driving. Both of these are team 949 Racing trade secrets though
        WWW.949RACING.COM
        SuperMiata

        Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
        But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
          Tuning a w2w race car asymmetrically is common
          ...by those who know the "whys" how to do it. It is unfortunate that these "trade secrets" have to be. I understand it however. It is very hard to learn them because it is a pain to set up cars so many different ways and go to the track and test them. That trade secret is hard fought expensive knowledge. I wonder what Burgoon has to say about this? I wonder if his dirt car experience has help speed his knowledge of asymmetrical set-up and if he is now a faster asphalt guy?

          Comment


          • #20
            What the hell is wedge? LoL confused.

            But thank you for the feedback. I think I will stick with fuel for time attack for now...
            How can I do?

            Comment


            • #21
              short explanation: wedge (RF / LR > 50%) will turn left harder, and vice versa. so you setup accordingly. most obvious is ACS Roval, where every turn (important ones) are left turns, so wedge.

              others are not so, say WSIR (why Rob corrected me), though a CW course, 2 important corners (T1 and T5) are left turns. while T1, T8 (in higher powered car) and T9 are 3 important right turns.

              BRP in a Miata is another not so obviously ones. 13CW, you would think because it is CW, you would de-wedge. but in a Miata, there are no corners (where you have to lift/brake) between Cotton Corner and Phil Hill (other than left turn Bus Stop). so there are actually 3 important left turns (Bus Stop, Sunset and Sunrise)...
              S1 Supermiata - 220whp
              13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
              17 GT350R
              03 Miata Club Sport
              96 NSX
              06 EVO MR
              15 Mini Cooper S
              Beck 550 Spyder

              Comment


              • #22
                Then there is running a different setup for qualifying vs race. In qual, all that matters is lap time, over just one lap. In a race, track position, the ability to attack or defend in a specific spot, can be more important than outright speed.
                So a time attack setup on a car that oveheats its tires and brakes in one lap could be pretty funky once you look at your data and determine where you can afford to lose time, to gain it elsewhere.

                Williams example of WSIR is case in point. Loose, with right wedge is fast there. You can afford to suck a bit in T5 because the right tires are cool when you get there and the fast eay through is sliding anyway. The time, and more critically, track position gained in T8,T9, T2, T4 far outweighs any concessions in T5.
                Last edited by emilio700; 07-02-2017, 10:05 PM.
                WWW.949RACING.COM
                SuperMiata

                Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
                But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by bellwilliam View Post
                  short explanation: wedge (RF / LR > 50%) will turn left harder, and vice versa. so you setup accordingly. most obvious is ACS Roval, where every turn (important ones) are left turns, so wedge.

                  others are not so, say WSIR (why Rob corrected me), though a CW course, 2 important corners (T1 and T5) are left turns. while T1, T8 (in higher powered car) and T9 are 3 important right turns.

                  BRP in a Miata is another not so obviously ones. 13CW, you would think because it is CW, you would de-wedge. but in a Miata, there are no corners (where you have to lift/brake) between Cotton Corner and Phil Hill (other than left turn Bus Stop). so there are actually 3 important left turns (Bus Stop, Sunset and Sunrise)...
                  Wow, never even heard of that before. Getting some learn on this AM. Thank you!
                  How can I do?

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by emilio700 View Post
                    Then there is running a different setup for qualifying vs race. In qual, all that matters is lap time, over just one lap. In a race, track position, the ability to attack or defend in a specific spot, can be more important than outright speed.
                    So a time attack setup on a car that oveheats its tires and brakes in one lap could be pretty funky once you look at your data and determine where you can afford to lose time, to gain it elsewhere.

                    Williams example of WSIR is case in point. Loose, with right wedge is fast there. You can afford to suck a bit in T5 because the right tires are cool when you get there and the fast eay through is sliding anyway. The time, and more critically, track position gained in T8,T9, T2, T4 far outweighs any concessions in T5.
                    Thanks for knowledge Emilio. Definitely need to book mark this thread for the future
                    How can I do?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bellwilliam View Post
                      short explanation: wedge (RF / LR > 50%) will turn left harder, and vice versa.
                      Sort of. That statement is only true if you start with a loose car.

                      I find it's better to not think of wedge/dewedge making the car "better" in one direction, but rather, more pushy left AND more loose right, or the other way around. If you want to make the car looser or tighter in both directions, look to other adjustments.

                      Carl, so far I am an utter failure at dirt, but haven't given up yet. Plowing through all the wrong setup/physics information out there has taken quite some time. It has gotten me out of a stale funk in my asphalt racing though.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by BANKAI View Post
                        What the hell is wedge? ...
                        Click image for larger version

Name:	thYJ0XLP5B.jpg
Views:	1
Size:	20.2 KB
ID:	232586

                        Last edited by Loose Caboose; 07-03-2017, 05:22 PM.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by robburgoon View Post
                          Carl, so far I am an utter failure at dirt, but haven't given up yet. Plowing through all the wrong setup/physics information out there has taken quite some time. It has gotten me out of a stale funk in my asphalt racing though.
                          One day I would like to be your crew for some dirt racing. Maybe between the 2 of us we could figure out the secrets. I think modern dirt thinking is more like asphalt for example where lifting the LF wheel vs. precise moment centers keeping the LF working. I guess some of that depends on the age of your chassis whether you have to go new school or old school or whether an old chassis can be modified.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by fatbillybob View Post
                            One day I would like to be your crew for some dirt racing. Maybe between the 2 of us we could figure out the secrets. I think modern dirt thinking is more like asphalt for example where lifting the LF wheel vs. precise moment centers keeping the LF working. I guess some of that depends on the age of your chassis whether you have to go new school or old school or whether an old chassis can be modified.
                            It's certainly a challenge. It would probably take a test day at a track that holds water well with some crew frantically making bar changes every few laps. You'd probably need one person to drive the car, one person to try to figure out wtf to change next, then maybe a person or two to make the actual changes. Right now I still have the usual crew size, but I'm working to change that.

                            Comment

                            Working...
                            X