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Thread: SCCA to form a new Chumpcar/Lemons class

  1. #41
    Senior Member Eric Richter's Avatar
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    I applaud the efforts of SCCA and CalClub. Often the same people criticizing the club for trying something new are the same ones that complain when they don't. What's the harm in trying this. I agree that they level of safety should be the same, but the more the merrier.
    hakeem and jimt like this.

  2. #42
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    +1

    You guys are boasting 150-300+ car counts.
    A LeMon weekend has 150+ cars. Which means 500+ drivers !!! Reality is LeMon pumps out more "racer" than all other organizations
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
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  3. #43
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    +1

    You guys are boasting 150-300+ car counts.
    A LeMon weekend has 150+ cars. Which means 500+ drivers !!! Reality is LeMon pumps out more "racer" than all other organizations

    LeMons is the 2000 version of SCCA's 1970 showroom stock/improved touring phenomenon that allowed ordinary people to race with ordinary cars on a very affordable budget. Still, LeMons car counts pale to the golden age of auto racing around here where car counts were 500-600 on a race weekend.

    The availability of "track days" has hurt racing. 30 years ago the only way to get a race car on a race track was to have a race license and a caged car. Track days are good enough satisfaction for more than 95% of the enthusiasts and that has cannibalized car counts at the races.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  4. #44
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    1. Should SCCA honor LeMons and Chump race licenses?
    2. Should they accept the car safety rules and cages of LeMons?
    3. If so, should it only be for the LeMons race group or should those drivers be thrown into race groups with STL, STU, AS and ITE type cars where the speeds and speed variances are much greater?
    4. Or should those drivers and cars be in there own run group and then go under the scrutiny and apply for a licensing school waiver to get into a full race license where they will be racing against GT1 cars doing 180+ into turn one at ACS or turning 1:16s at WSIR as opposed to 2:00+ lap times?
    Last edited by Olitho; 12-24-2013 at 10:03 AM.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  5. #45
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    No, no, no.

    With DMV:
    1. get into a 3 hours line
    2. pay a fee
    3. take eye exam
    4. take written test
    5. take driving test.

    With LeMon and Chump:
    1. pay a fee.

    Big difference. You should honor DMV license before LeMon/Chump
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-24-2013 at 10:00 AM.
    bawareca likes this.
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  6. #46
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    I think that SCCA should enforce its current licensing requirements. Only about 25% of the current Lemons field really has any business getting on a racetrack with more serious racecars. The rest would be hazardously off pace or a mechanical danger. The drivers of the cars that have been made legitemately quick are the same drivers that either already have a license or would likely not have problems acquiring one.

    I think my team falls into the latter category. For the price of racing lemons for the last few years we each could have easily built to a spec class and been collectively racing, BUT its a very different experience. The Lemons crowd is just that much fun, combined with the mad-scientist approach to racing where the lack of a "formula" to making a quick car brings a refreshing variety (snow-mobile engined miata with CVT? turning door to door laps with a 944 turbo?). Additionally just making a fast lemons car doesnt guarentee any level of success. We are consistantly one of the fastest cars on the field (which I know equates to being the smartest retard in this context) but we also consistently have some mechanical malady that costs us just enough time to take us out of contention for overall win (last december we lost an oil seal at around hour 14 while fighting for first, a few years prior we had a miata go kamakaze into a hub destroying it).

    The appeal to us of racing lemons is that an overall win really requires as much luck as skill and you cant just buy your way to the top, and the crowd really is that much fun. That being said, they are quite expensive outings, and I welcome a format where we could run in W2W sprints, because while track days can be satisfying between events its never the same as going W2W.

  7. #47
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by anorexicpoodle View Post
    I think that SCCA should enforce its current licensing requirements. Only about 25% of the current Lemons field really has any business getting on a racetrack with more serious racecars.

    The Lemons crowd is just that much fun,

    equates to being the smartest retard

    the crowd really is that much fun.

    That being said, they are quite expensive outings, and I welcome a format where we could run in W2W sprints, because while track days can be satisfying between events its never the same as going W2W.
    There are a few posts which seem to share this sentiment. National/Majors SCCA can be pretty serious. Regionals SCCA are much more relaxed with a lower level of competition but still see a good number of Nationally licensed racers who just go out regardless because they are track addicts. It sure sounds to me by this and similar posts that even if our local SCCA does not endorse this IT-EZ class there is still a Socal home for sprint racing lemons/chump cars and that is AROSC.org. Many of the racers of AROSC cross into other clubs NASA/SCCA and are quite accomplished. But the races seem to be more like what this post describes. The cars are all pretty low prep level and I can't remember when I saw an AROSC race where someone had sticker tires. The group is safe, casual and fun with zero contact strictly enforced.

  8. #48
    Senior Member ELO168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    1. Should SCCA honor LeMons and Chump race licenses?
    2. Should they accept the car safety rules and cages of LeMons?
    3. If so, should it only be for the LeMons race group or should those drivers be thrown into race groups with STL, STU, AS and ITE type cars where the speeds and speed variances are much greater?
    4. Or should those drivers and cars be in there own run group and then go under the scrutiny and apply for a licensing school waiver to get into a full race license where they will be racing against GT1 cars doing 180+ into turn one at ACS or turning 1:16s at WSIR as opposed to 2:00+ lap times?

    No they should not honor Lemons/Chump licenses, but could honor Nasa, Alfa, Tcra, Poc, Bmwcca or other clubs.
    Yes should honor Lemons/Chump rules for cages.
    No they should be in their own group until proven they can be on track safely.
    Just my 2 cents
    http://touringcarclub.net/

  9. #49
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELO168 View Post
    ...honor Nasa, Alfa, Tcra, Poc, Bmwcca or other clubs.

    SCCA does that now.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  10. #50
    Senior Member ELO168's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    SCCA does that now.
    Great,now we just need to know about the Erw cages.
    http://touringcarclub.net/

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    In today's racing that is a success. No where else in the country do they have the fields for either nationals or regionals that you have in even a nor cal regional. Don't use what you are used to in your backyard. It is not replicated anywhere else in the country with the exception of the first club race earlier this year at COTA. Furthermore, when compared against the race fields at POC, NASA and other clubs it is better than virtually every other club. Remember, we still have not seen the registration rush that usually comes two to three weeks before the race. I bet there are well over 200 entries, although that still pales with your region. I was simply countering The Sheriff's assertion that Cal Club is moribund. It is healthier and stronger than any other sanctioning body in SoCal. If we take away the HPDE/TT portion of NASA there is not much of a racing program unfortunately. It seems like NASA has been trying to do what Cal Club did 10-15 years ago and run their racers off to other places.
    The Majors at Sebring has 346 registered cars btw. It's not just SFR region.

  12. #52
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazik View Post
    The Majors at Sebring has 346 registered cars btw. It's not just SFR region.
    Sebring is not normal either. They get snowbird racers from up and down the east coast and the Midwest.

    Face it Rylan. The hey day of wheel to wheel racing started disappearing years ago with the concept of track days taking hold. For most, well over 90%, doing a track day is good enough. There was a time in the past that the only way to get on a race track was to be a racer. You can argue with me all you want, but NorCal is an anomaly this past decade.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  13. #53
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    Why wouldn't calclub pull in racers even from norcal? I mean 18 spec miata entries? Why can't calclub even attract even half the field size of a sfr regional -or- the sebring majors?

    I've never understood why a club that is only a few hundred miles away can't at least get a part of the field to drive south. There are just as many track days up here too.

  14. #54
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by krazik View Post
    Why wouldn't calclub pull in racers even from norcal? I mean 18 spec miata entries? Why can't calclub even attract even half the field size of a sfr regional -or- the sebring majors?

    I've never understood why a club that is only a few hundred miles away can't at least get a part of the field to drive south. There are just as many track days up here too.

    That is a good question. I don't know the answer.

    It looks like entries for a local Majors race will crest 200. I think that is approaching nearly double the wheel to wheel entries of the NASA National at MMP in September.

    I bet the Norcal race has 300-400 entries.
    krazik likes this.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  15. #55
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Glad I am now an SFR member!!

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