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Thread: Putting our racing costs into perspective

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    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Default Putting our racing costs into perspective

    Searching through IMSA rules for the coming season and I came across this recent memo.

    Scroll to page 3 and check out per-event entry fees. Ouch. About what I expected, but seeing it spelled out in front of you really emphasizes it.

    http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...MO%2014-05.pdf
    Ryan Passey
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Wow, SPM is much more affordable.
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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    Wow, SPM is much more affordable.
    Your statement may be true in absolute numbers ,but in the world we live in everything is relative.I assume that an organisation that can shed $180k+a year for entry fees wont be strapped for cash,which may not be the case for most of us weekend racers

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    I especially enjoyed how the itemization is merely a quantity, not a dollar amount, that adds up to a dollar amount. I should file my taxes like that.

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    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Haha I didn't really think much of that itemization but that's great - no need to justify or defend any single cost, the light kit could be $50 or $10k.

    Prize money for each event:

    http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...MO%2014-04.pdf

    Basically only first and second place exceed the event fees.. oh, you could break even with a 3rd place finish at Daytona 24 but only if you're in the P class. But then that's balanced out by Watkins Glen where only the first place finisher's prize money exceeds the event fees.

    (obviously team funding/profit comes from many areas other than prize money)

    -Ryan
    Ryan Passey
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Haha I didn't really think much of that itemization but that's great - no need to justify or defend any single cost, the light kit could be $50 or $10k.

    Prize money for each event:

    http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...MO%2014-04.pdf

    Basically only first and second place exceed the event fees.. oh, you could break even with a 3rd place finish at Daytona 24 but only if you're in the P class. But then that's balanced out by Watkins Glen where only the first place finisher's prize money exceeds the event fees.

    (obviously team funding/profit comes from many areas other than prize money)

    -Ryan
    And virtually every "pro" driver is buying his seat with personal sponsors.
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Haha I didn't really think much of that itemization but that's great - no need to justify or defend any single cost, the light kit could be $50 or $10k.

    Prize money for each event:

    http://www.imsaracing.net/2013/alms/...MO%2014-04.pdf

    Basically only first and second place exceed the event fees.. oh, you could break even with a 3rd place finish at Daytona 24 but only if you're in the P class. But then that's balanced out by Watkins Glen where only the first place finisher's prize money exceeds the event fees.

    (obviously team funding/profit comes from many areas other than prize money)

    -Ryan
    I believe NASCAR is the only organization that it possible (I say possible, not likely) to survive with winning prize and contingency money to pay for racing budget.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I believe NASCAR is the only organization that it possible (I say possible, not likely) to survive with winning prize and contingency money to pay for racing budget.
    Some NASCAR races pay $40k just to start and park.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    And virtually every "pro" driver is buying his seat with personal sponsors.
    Yeah, I struggle to understand how a pro driver (aside from rich kids) can make a living when they're using so much of their personal sponsorship money just to buy the seat.. where does the profit come from?? Hard to see how a driver's sponsorships can total buy-in costs + other racing expenses (gear, etc.) +$50k... but maybe?

    -Ryan
    Ryan Passey
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Yeah, I struggle to understand how a pro driver (aside from rich kids) can make a living when they're using so much of their personal sponsorship money just to buy the seat.. where does the profit come from?? Hard to see how a driver's sponsorships can total buy-in costs + other racing expenses (gear, etc.) +$50k... but maybe?

    -Ryan
    Being on tv regularly probably makes it easier to shake the tree of some corporations.

    However, the unpleasant reality is that there is no money in racing, and even less money in road racing. There are a few exceptions, but for the most part you'd probably be better off flipping burgers.

    For example Billy is doing the pro racer thing, however I suspect Roush also has him salaried and working full time (and then some?) at Roush HQ. I'm guessing he'd make more money just doing the type of work he's doing over there and not driving race cars.

    I could be wrong, and Billy is more than welcome to correct my misconceptions. This is just idle speculation.

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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    For example Billy is doing the pro racer thing, however I suspect Roush also has him salaried and working full time (and then some?) at Roush HQ. I'm guessing he'd make more money just doing the type of work he's doing over there and not driving race cars.

    I could be wrong, and Billy is more than welcome to correct my misconceptions. This is just idle speculation.
    What about when he drives a Turner BMW or a DP car? I'd love to know the answer but I don't expect to get it.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    1/2 of F1 drivers pays to drive. an example here:

    Williams invoiced Maldonado for $46 million last year. AND he has won 1 F1 races, there are 3 current F1 teams that never earned a single point (top 1/2 of the field) for last 3+ years, imagine what their drivers pay
    Maldonado sponsors invoiced $46 million by Williams for 2012 race seat | Grand Prix 247
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 10-24-2013 at 10:41 AM.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    Yeah, I struggle to understand how a pro driver (aside from rich kids) can make a living when they're using so much of their personal sponsorship money just to buy the seat.. where does the profit come from?? Hard to see how a driver's sponsorships can total buy-in costs + other racing expenses (gear, etc.) +$50k... but maybe?

    -Ryan
    The answer is, they don't. Sort of like the music business. A select few at the top make a good living. The tiny tip of the pyramid are rich. The vast hoardes of musicians just get by, like pro road racers.

    I often hear of once famous pro drivers now making a living doing odd jobs or something really mundane and blue collar. We watch youtube and think all good musicians are pop stars, just like the pro racers we see on TV.

    Most musicians, like pro road racers, do it because they love it and can almost save for retirement.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Emilio -

    An excellent perspective, and fine analogy between the music business and car racing. I have always been a big fan of rock music, and was very surprised when I found out that a lot of rock bands in local clubs were not getting paid to play, but were paying for the opportunity to play at the club. Amateur, and, I suppose, "Professional" race car drivers do the same thing, on a grander scale. The percentage of racers that make a good living at it can't be any better than the percentage of musicians who make a good living at that and in either case, the percentage can't be more than 0.001%. Nevertheless, we can all dream of being rock stars or winning race car drivers . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    The answer is, they don't. Sort of like the music business. A select few at the top make a good living. The tiny tip of the pyramid are rich. The vast hoardes of musicians just get by, like pro road racers.

    I often hear of once famous pro drivers now making a living doing odd jobs or something really mundane and blue collar. We watch youtube and think all good musicians are pop stars, just like the pro racers we see on TV.

    Most musicians, like pro road racers, do it because they love it and can almost save for retirement.
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