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    Default End of Viper production

    Looks like 2017 will be the last year. I'm surprised how few they're selling.

    Dodge Viper to cease production in 2017, labor agreement reveals | Autoweek

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    That is sad news.
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    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    Sad, but not shocking. Not sure how many people even remembered they were building them anymore.

    Steve

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    I think the problem is that we all like them, but we never liked them enough to buy one.
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    Too long of a hiatus from the market was the first foot in the grave, second foot- "price gouging"! Dodge got greedy with a car that was trying to appeal to too broad of an audience. Further, way cheaper alternatives with similar performance numbers are out there. Buh bye Viper (sniff sniff).

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    Quote Originally Posted by anorexicpoodle View Post
    I think the problem is that we all like them, but we never liked them enough to buy one.

    So true. It would have been real vette competition at a reasonable price. You just can't pay that for a low tech brute force Dodge. Another let down as far as racing them were things like rumored $10,000 hoods them before paint and body cost. We are talking Champagne prices for Beer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2GRX7 View Post
    Too long of a hiatus from the market was the first foot in the grave, second foot- "price gouging"! Dodge got greedy with a car that was trying to appeal to too broad of an audience. Further, way cheaper alternatives with similar performance numbers are out there. Buh bye Viper (sniff sniff).
    Price gouging? They dropped the price on them quite a bit. What cheaper alternative offers similar performance? The heat soaking Z06?

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    So true. It would have been real vette competition at a reasonable price. You just can't pay that for a low tech brute force Dodge. Another let down as far as racing them were things like rumored $10,000 hoods them before paint and body cost. We are talking Champagne prices for Beer.
    That's just for the Gen 1/2, which can be had for $3,600 new -which is a heck of a deal compared to a miata's hard top.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    Price gouging? They dropped the price on them quite a bit. What cheaper alternative offers similar performance? The heat soaking Z06?


    That's just for the Gen 1/2, which can be had for $3,600 new -which is a heck of a deal compared to a miata's hard top.
    What- did I stut, stut, stutter? Dodge price gouged FROM THE FACTORY! It wasn't a case of dealers doing it! It was Dodge!

    Because of their price gouging, their sales were in the ****ter to start with (99k-122k msrp, REALLY?!!!), forcing Chrysler to 'idle' the plant for 3 months (Apr 14-July 14)

    I'da taken a GTR-Track edition over the Viper and had a more usable, everyday car and put money back in my wallet!

    Why are you defending this?
    Last edited by 2GRX7; 10-20-2015 at 07:02 AM. Reason: Cause Billy would have tried to correct my "Ds" for "Ts" in "studder"!LOL!

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    Not sure I would call it price gouging. They weren't selling cars and dropped the prices a ton, so they are quite good value IMO. The GTR is very heavy and then tires and brakes dontnhold up as well to continuous track use like the lighter Viper (w.wider tires).

    For similar pricing as the GTR-Track, I think the Viper TA would be faster and make a better track car. As far as comfort is concerned, the Gen 5s are a pretty significant leap forward in terms of refinement and quality. I would have no problem DD one.

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    Seems like 70% of MSRP is a better place to start. Let me know when they give away the last ones and I would be glad to put one in my stable. I really like the ACR if they still make those and the comp couple. But for a comp coupe I would buy a Ferrari. I seem to remember being surprised at the cost of those and the latest gen of the streetcar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    Price gouging? They dropped the price on them quite a bit. What cheaper alternative offers similar performance? The heat soaking Z06?
    I think you hit the nail on the head here. It's expensive to actually deliver that massive performance. The trouble is, outside of a very hardcore set of folks, the reality of that performance just doesn't matter.

    From a penis value, the Viper is the same as a Corvette, but it costs a lot more.

    And in the end, penis sells cars.

    Steve
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    Nawh, man! The point is not where the car CURRENTLY sits in the grand scheme of things, it's what got the car to the point of it's demise!

    Viper production sat idle for 3 months after its re-introduction to the market! No one was buying this car because there were better alternatives at its previous price point-arguably, still are (yes, heat-soaking Zo6 included).

    90% of the buyers of cars like these aren't even close to being racers, although they want the "racecar" experience and the want the ego comforting, "bragging rights" for saying they have the best of the best. When Dodge revisited their marketing focus groups, there weren't twenty "Billy Johnsons" around the table talking this car up. It was more like twenty dudes/women that looked like they ATE Billy Johnson griping about it's shortcomings!!! Uh, did I make clear- YOU are not the target audience!

    15K price drop was more than a market correction, it was the consumers collective "pimp slap" across Dodges' face basically telling them, "Know your place, Dodge", and a, "*****, where's the rest of my money?"

    Dodge screwed up from the get-go. Dodge waited too long to bring it back. When it did make its way back onto the proverbial map, it was in Saudi Arabia territory (Makes sense cause they were the only ones that could afford it-yes, jokes) Seriously, the Viper, initially, didn't even sell at all of their Dodge dealers! WHAT?!!

    I'm not saying it's not impressive for the money now, but that's NOW-currently. It could have been even more impressive in 2013 at the 2015 price point, but Dodge alienated potential-new-Viper consumers and pissed off their base and paid dearly. Oh well.

    But hey-maybe they'll come out with an awesomely funky Fiat-based front-wheel drive convertible I've been dying to have... :-(
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    The Fiat 500 Viper Edition!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2GRX7 View Post
    Nawh, man! The point is not where the car CURRENTLY sits in the grand scheme of things, it's what got the car to the point of it's demise!

    Viper production sat idle for 3 months after its re-introduction to the market! No one was buying this car because there were better alternatives at its previous price point-arguably, still are (yes, heat-soaking Zo6 included).

    90% of the buyers of cars like these aren't even close to being racers, although they want the "racecar" experience and the want the ego comforting, "bragging rights" for saying they have the best of the best. When Dodge revisited their marketing focus groups, there weren't twenty "Billy Johnsons" around the table talking this car up. It was more like twenty dudes/women that looked like they ATE Billy Johnson griping about it's shortcomings!!! Uh, did I make clear- YOU are not the target audience!

    15K price drop was more than a market correction, it was the consumers collective "pimp slap" across Dodges' face basically telling them, "Know your place, Dodge", and a, "*****, where's the rest of my money?"

    Dodge screwed up from the get-go. Dodge waited too long to bring it back. When it did make its way back onto the proverbial map, it was in Saudi Arabia territory (Makes sense cause they were the only ones that could afford it-yes, jokes) Seriously, the Viper, initially, didn't even sell at all of their Dodge dealers! WHAT?!!

    I'm not saying it's not impressive for the money now, but that's NOW-currently. It could have been even more impressive in 2013 at the 2015 price point, but Dodge alienated potential-new-Viper consumers and pissed off their base and paid dearly. Oh well.

    But hey-maybe they'll come out with an awesomely funky Fiat-based front-wheel drive convertible I've been dying to have... :-(
    Nawww, Dawwg, you flat tripping crazy. Seriously, I dont know where you're coming from and it sound like you dont' have a clear understanding of what happened to the car.

    Chrysler went bankrupt in 2009 and the Gen 3/4s last year of production just happened to be 2010. Fiat was negotiating purchasing Chrysler and the Viper was not at the top of their list in the company's overhaul. The italian-styled Dart and Charger redesign, the bread and butter of the company, were higher priorities than the Viper. The future of the Viper was still unclear with the goals of broadening the target market to more sophisticated Porsche and Ferrari Clientele, heck, the use of the V10 was in question. The decision was made to keep the V10 and keep some of the Viper's DNA but make the car a lot more refined with italian leather, Ferrari (Sabelt) seats, and make it much more daily driver friendly. There's a reason for the hiatus between the Gen 4 and Gen 5.

    With the new Gen 5 redesign, Fiat-Chrysler anticipated sales of 2,000/year (166/mo) which was on the higher side of the Viper's sales thoughout its existence. Unfortunately at the launch, they were only selling ~100/month and sales slowly died down from there. I don't think the car was priced too high, especially compared to the Porsche target market and for the performance it delivers. Its also more expensive to build than previous models with all of the carbon work and higher quality materials. I think it's more of Fiat-Chrysler's lack of ability to broaden the target market and generate sales than it was for the car being priced 'too high'. Because of this, sales were in the mid double-digits and inventory backed up and yes they had to shut down the plant for a few months.

    In order to dump inventory, they dropped the price 15K in 2014 which briefly increased sales to around 100/mo, but while sales from then on were slightly better, it wasn't by much. Thus the price 'correction' wasn't the answer and i'm sure Fiat-Chrysler isn't making much if not selling them at a loss.

    You can spew whatever prejudices and opinions you have on the car, and it's clear you have not driven one. They are quite refined and a leap forward in build quality and materials since Fiats takeover. The Viper is like a big S2000/Miata and is a great handling car. Its more expensive than a Vette, and its a lot faster. The TA/ACR are more expensive than a Z06, but its also faster. The Viper has always been a low volume car and I think it's raw image from its earlier models have given most of the automotive community the image of not being a great street car, which is far from the case. I think Fiat-Chrysler's biggest challenge was changing the cars image to attract Porsche and Ferrari buyers. I know a few Gen 5 owners who did come from those cars and love their Viper. But as a whole, the car's image an overly-high sales expectations were the biggest problems for the car.

    The Viper was created to be a modern day Shelby Cobra and to be the flagship and improve the image of a boring Chrysler in 1990. That role will never be a money-maker, like the McLaren SLR is for Mercedes, Ford GT for Ford, etc... With the ever constricting EPA regulations, the formula of a big engine is at stake across all manufacturers and the writing has been on the wall for the Viper for a while now. Not because it isn't a good car.

    0.02

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    It doesn't seem like they aggressively marketed the car at all. Vettes, mustangs, GT3s, NDs, etc. all have more internet reviews than I can stand to watch. I don't recall seeing Randy Probst driving the car around Laguna or anything. At least not the latest version with aero.

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    WTF?!!! I don't have an understanding? Billy, Maybe it's YOU that doesn't have a clear understanding of the business.

    I've contributed to the tire allocation cycle for the 3rd gen ZB Viper when I was a part of Michelin's Motorsports/UHP team in the early 00's. I helped develop part of Diamler Chrysler's Neon SRT4 roll out program (BFG KDWs), I helped developed the original Pilot Sport Cup roll-out program throughout the Northeast/Midwestern U.S. I've got a clue!

    With regards to the Viper and you equating my BUSINESS ASSESSMENT to a personal opinion, you could not be further from the truth! I LOVE the 2nd gen coupe and the way it drove.

    I had a plan on how I was going to hook it up APR side skirts, H&R coil-overs (the Sh!t back in the day). They had one at the Dodge outdoor SEMA display the following year-just about lost it! I ended up with a 3rd gen RX-7, which everyone down here now thinks is a Viper! Go figure!

    My point is, you are assessing this car from the fanboi perspective and your beliefs on performance compared to other competitors is SPOT ON! Personally, I agree, but WE ARE NOT THEIR (DODGE) PROSPECTIVE CONSUMER! Sorry, you/I are not. Some of the things you're saying in your previous post shows you are not digging deep enough;

    1. I think it's more of Fiat-Chrysler's lack of ability to broaden the target market and generate sales than it was for the car being priced 'too high'.
    - So, what Fiat's supposed to change the minds/perception of a potential super car buyer in the span of half a year? REALLY? Sorry, in Europe, brand equity and Dodge Viper don't mix (UN LESS you bring up ORECA)

    - Building brand equity within the U.S. is a bit easier, but there are still options for that "typical" supercar buyer that doesn't need that last 3-tenths of lateral G-that don't need that last 3-tenths acceleration! And when they go to read Car&Driver, or Motor Trend, they're going to read that the Viper's the, " out and out favorite!", "The brut that's not for the faint of hear t-but the Corvette has similar performance, better refinement, and easier on the wallet!" What now goes through the mind of the buyer 1. wife's happier car's more refined 2. I know I ca n't really handle a racecar and the Vette's more forgiving? Vette, please!

    2. The Viper has always been a low volume car and I think it's raw image from its earlier models have given most of the automotive community the image of not being a great street car, which is far from the case.

    -Billy, you are SO making my case. Perception is EVERYTHING! It's "Raw" image basically says 'cheap' to a prospective buyer.

    3. The Viper was created to be a modern day Shelby Cobra and to be the flagship and improve the image of a boring Chrysler in 1990. That role will never be a money-maker, like the M cLaren SLR is for Mercedes, Ford GT for Ford, etc... With the ever constricting EPA regulations, the formula of a big engine is at stake across all manufacturers and the writing has been o n the wall for the Viper for a while now. Not because it isn't a good car.

    - I never said it wasn't a good car, and by the way you are structuring ^this^ sentence, you're defending the merits of the car. I'm not arguing them. The OP is expressing surprise at why it's not selling- not it's over-the-top performance.

    You're right-I haven't driven the newest Viper, but if it s anything like the 2nd gen model, i'd be beside myself!

    Look, the market sets the price of 'most' things (another thread right there) in an economy like ours. Dodge priced it way too high and the consumer responded with a resounding, "no thanks!" It wasn't the other way around.

    Billy, I'm not going to bash you or anything like that because I really want you to succeed-possibly get that Multi spot to get you up into the higher echelons of the sport. I've watch you in-person back in that orange 510 at buttonwillow '06 TT and thought, "man, he can be the one that bridges the tuner category with professional racing", but you need to really open your mind a bit, humble yourself and just listen and evaluate based on the questioning before you.

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    I probably shouldn't be responding since it seems like you have the need to state my ignorance and educate me but, as a Viper owner (97GTS) and having driven and tracked almost every model other than a Gen 1 RT10 & Gen 5 ACR, I don't think my perspective is that of a "Fanboi".

    You criticized the length of the cars abscence which had more to do with the state of the company than anything else. I stated the Viper was born with the " raw" image and over the years its slowly has become more civilized with a huge jump in refinement in the Gen 5. I have a few friends that DD their Gen 5s and they came from Gallardos, Ferraris and Porsches, so Chrysler was a bit successful getting the business of those guys but not in the numbers they were hoping for. I agree changing the perception is difficult, but I bet they didn't think it would be hard to sell 160 cars a month even for how specialized the car is. I still don't think the price is too high when they're targeting Porsche/Ferrari/Mercedes buyers.

    A Lotus Evora S isn't that much less price wise and I would say its not any better as a DD. They're also similar production numbers as the Viper, but its still easier for most to accept a $80k lotus than a $80k dodge, even if they renamed it an "SRT" to improve the image. For what it is and the quality of car, I don't think the Viper is overpriced. Most people who can afford one dont want to drive a "Dodge", and brand image is verybimportant to them. But for less than the cost of a GT3 (and while being much faster), its a heck of a deal and seems to have respect from GT3 owners. Its also pretty cool to see the Ford GT350 generating similar performance figures as the GT3 for half the price, and ive heard of numerous Porsche guys who ordered GT350s to park next to their GT3s.

    Ford seems to be doing a much better job promoting and improving the image of the Mustang (pulling from BMW and Merc owners) than Fiat-Chrysler did with the Viper. Its great to see american manufacturers stepping up their game as a whole but I have to imagine the writing has been on the wall EPA wise with a 8.4L pushrod motor and its on borrowed time. I wonder how long GM can make their pushrod motors last into the future as well.

    0.02

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    Nawww, Dawwg, you flat tripping crazy. Seriously, I dont know where you're coming from and it sound like you dont' have a clear understanding of what happened to the car.

    It was, initially, YOU that implied I was ignorant! I'm telling you what I was privy to during my time at Michelin!

    Your argument was based on the performance of the car-which I do not argue! It's a bad-ass car, but it's PERCEIVED as an overpriced, raw piece of machinery by the consumers in the market to purchase a supercar! Just sayin!

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    I didn't imply that you were ignorant nor did I mean to offend you. You stated that dodge took too long to bring the car back, but that hiatus was due to the company going bankrupt and the Viper was not a priority for Fiat during the Chrysler overhaul. I praised its performance and said despite the cars perception (which I agree with you) the Gen 5 is a greatly refined car and a pretty good DD. It's funny how many journalists feed into these perceptions and continue them. I've read where one would say how hard the Viper rides yet wouldn't mention it in a rougher riding AMG black series car. I agree its all about perception and my comments were in attempt to clarify some of those incorrect stereotypes. I think we are agreeing more than disagreeing, and its nice to see the abscence of "Malibu's Most Wanted" writing in your recent posts

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    I had the chance to drive the 2015 Viper T/A version. I loved it and I was impressed with the build quality and its on-track handling. Great car. The rocker panels still get hot from the exhaust. I know side pipes are a Viper thing, but I still prefer pipes exiting at the rear.

    If there ever were a time to buy a Viper, it's right now.

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