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Thread: What's needed for c5 z06 track prep?

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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    LS6 can be built from all new GMparts. GM just does not build a crate LS6 anymore. LS1 does not have the LS6 batwing oilpan and it is down 50+hp over the LS6. So there is no reason to run an LS1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    The LS6 is the only engine that can do that task with race rubber and no dry sump. All the others need a dry sump and some early versions of the C6 Z06 also need a bigger dry sump tank to be safe on Turn two.
    so only C5 z06 and ones with big dry sump won't blow up ?
    which one has big dry sump ? only C6 z06 ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    so only C5 z06 and ones with big dry sump won't blow up ?
    which one has big dry sump ? only C6 z06 ?
    06-08 C6Z has a dry sump but reservoir capacity was inadequate. Pick up and internal baffle design could better too. The ZR1 was released in '09 which had a bigger reservoir and a few smaller changes to the sump IIRC. My '08 has a modified reservoir to increase capacity about 35% so it's the same as the ZR1. Good enough for HPDE on 100tw but still not good enough for say an ST2 car.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    so only C5 z06 and ones with big dry sump won't blow up ?
    which one has big dry sump ? only C6 z06 ?
    I am not expert on the different model years of the C6 Z06, but as I recall the 2005-2007ish model years have a smaller dry sump and on long high g-loads like ACS T2 the engine can oil starve.

    After the rash of engine losses it is my understanding that they went to a larger dry-sump tank to resolve the problem.
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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    All I needed to track my corvette successfully was a rear view mirror delete kit. It completely eliminated miatas following too closely and seemed to vastly improve my driving skill.

    After that I found pretty much the complete succession of all failures possible in a C5 over 10 years of tracking them. Start by addressing brakes (lines, fluid, pads, cooling), engine oil temps and catch can, and Turn 1 power steering pump with Joe Gibbs fluid. SKF hubs will be next on the list, followed by a tranny cooler. The list goes on from there but it's hard to beat this car for the money.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    My friend has a c6 Grand Sport. LS3 with dry sump. Would that be a reliable track car as it has all the z06 bits but less power
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    My friend has a c6 Grand Sport. LS3 with dry sump. Would that be a reliable track car as it has all the z06 bits but less power
    It should be. What year is it? As I recall when the made the Grand Sport in had the bigger better dry sump.

    Will he be running race tires? The game changes with the extra stresses once you go that route.


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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    All I needed to track my corvette successfully was a rear view mirror delete kit. It completely eliminated miatas following too closely and seemed to vastly improve my driving skill.

    After that I found pretty much the complete succession of all failures possible in a C5 over 10 years of tracking them. Start by addressing brakes (lines, fluid, pads, cooling), engine oil temps and catch can, and Turn 1 power steering pump with Joe Gibbs fluid. SKF hubs will be next on the list, followed by a tranny cooler. The list goes on from there but it's hard to beat this car for the money.
    You point out a couple of other good things I missed like brake lines and the power steering rack/pumps. Those also need attention as your track days get numerous, especially if running wide race rubber up front.

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    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    LS6, no longer in production. (good job chevy)
    With aero and A7s, it will still blow up.
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    The closer to a stock built gm motor the more reliable they are. My feel for the number of blow ups is directly related to the dwindling supply of crate LS motors. I have not been impressed with any hot shot engine builders. They are like contractors. They talk good game and always fine a way to let you down. If you are not building them yourself you are loosing reliability. Then we do things like home made avid dry sumps which are great ideas not always with best execution because a dry sump is always better. Then we turn up rpm limits and tweek for max hp and torque leaving little safety in our tunes. There is a corvette on corvette chase video where the chased car engine blew. Miles and laps back we can see that motor already in trouble and could have been saved. It was pushed into extinction. Sometimes we sabotage things ourselves.
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    Ok, pretend I'm as fast as the fastest of you guys (I'm not, but I'm no slouch either). Low mileage, clean c5 z06 with: Ron Davies radiator/ oil cooler, 315 NT01s square, seat, sway bars and c6 z06 calipers. Is this something youd be able to do 5-10 HPDEs on and be happy with? Or do you think the brakes would still struggle a bit and $1700 more for the AP brakes would save a lot of headaches? Same with the tranny cooler?

    I'm thinking I won't have the car for more than a year or so and want to keep it pretty clean/ stockish to keep costs down and help resale. I'm also still on the fence about just getting another s2000 but the c5 seems super fun and I'd like a hp car for once. Especially a hp car that can corner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    Ok, pretend I'm as fast as the fastest of you guys (I'm not, but I'm no slouch either). Low mileage, clean c5 z06 with: Ron Davies radiator/ oil cooler, 315 NT01s square, seat, sway bars and c6 z06 calipers. Is this something youd be able to do 5-10 HPDEs on and be happy with? Or do you think the brakes would still struggle a bit and $1700 more for the AP brakes would save a lot of headaches? Same with the tranny cooler?

    I'm thinking I won't have the car for more than a year or so and want to keep it pretty clean/ stockish to keep costs down and help resale. I'm also still on the fence about just getting another s2000 but the c5 seems super fun and I'd like a hp car for once. Especially a hp car that can corner.
    Avoid ACS, Laguna, and Sonoma. Should be fine.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    I am not sure what you mean by "happy with." That is a dangerously vague phrase.

    I I presume to understand that to mean you can drive the car hard with little to no additional consumables then I agree with Burgoon. As long as you are not concentrating exclusively on the hard braking tracks the pads and rotors should last.Tires might not make it 10 days depending on the track, your alignment and how hard you drive it.
    If you are out in the late spring, summer or early fall plan on a tranny cooler if you plan to run a lot of full sessions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    Ok, pretend I'm as fast as the fastest of you guys (I'm not, but I'm no slouch either). Low mileage, clean c5 z06 with: Ron Davies radiator/ oil cooler, 315 NT01s square, seat, sway bars and c6 z06 calipers. Is this something youd be able to do 5-10 HPDEs on and be happy with? Or do you think the brakes would still struggle a bit and $1700 more for the AP brakes would save a lot of headaches? Same with the tranny cooler?

    I'm thinking I won't have the car for more than a year or so and want to keep it pretty clean/ stockish to keep costs down and help resale. I'm also still on the fence about just getting another s2000 but the c5 seems super fun and I'd like a hp car for once. Especially a hp car that can corner.
    The reality is that that are precious few high hp cars that can be driven by and advanced level driver on every CA track in hot weather without significant cooling and braking system modifications. I would characterize high hp as <9lbs/hp with driver. There are several low hp cars (15lbs/hp) that are ok and only one mid hp (9-14 lbs/hp) that will, that's the S2000 which only needs brakes.

    My opinion, you're asking too much and spending too little. Drive it slow enough and you will meet your project goals. Drive it like Bill or Oli can and you will not. I think you should add a front BBK with good ducting at the very least.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    I'm thinking I won't have the car for more than a year or so and want to keep it pretty clean/ stockish to keep costs down and help resale. I'm also still on the fence about just getting another s2000 but the c5 seems super fun and I'd like a hp car for once. Especially a hp car that can corner.
    If you only drive it for a year then leave it stock.
    Avoid hot summer events.
    Oil temp will get to 250 in a 3/4 laps and then you will have to drive at 7/10th till it cools down.
    Drive it to the track, use street tires and enjoy flogging an old Vette.

    If you want to modify it you will save $$ getting a C5 already track sorted.

    I've had 2 C5Z vettes, one track prepped https://youtu.be/ixENUntyMRk?t=50s and one stock https://youtu.be/wKqCob6VH7o?t=7s .
    I'd look for a 2009 C6Z the performance increase is worth it over the C5Z.

    funny C5 article...
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    Ok, pretend I'm as fast as the fastest of you guys (I'm not, but I'm no slouch either). Low mileage, clean c5 z06 with: Ron Davies radiator/ oil cooler, 315 NT01s square, seat, sway bars and c6 z06 calipers. Is this something youd be able to do 5-10 HPDEs on and be happy with? Or do you think the brakes would still struggle a bit and $1700 more for the AP brakes would save a lot of headaches? Same with the tranny cooler?

    I'm thinking I won't have the car for more than a year or so and want to keep it pretty clean/ stockish to keep costs down and help resale. I'm also still on the fence about just getting another s2000 but the c5 seems super fun and I'd like a hp car for once. Especially a hp car that can corner.
    The C5 Z06 stock brakes will be fine for HPDE. Just expect a low pedal after 15 minutes of hard braking. Switching to a BBK kit is a long term investment. You'll have a high initial cost, but will make it all back after a couple years of tracking in pads and rotor cost. You'll also save a ton of time, not needing to bleed your brakes every track day.

    You'll need a transmission cooler. You could put one together for less than $500.
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    You are getting good advice from they guys that really know Vetts. I ran my C6 for quite a few years and loved every minute of it. My car was mostly stock with just minor suspension modifications and a bigger oil cooler. About a year before before I stopped tracking the car I added Stoptech brakes which were a big improvement. Running NT-05s the car ran beautifully without issues. The only thing that was marginal was the PS pump. If you go with a stickier tire it is tougher on the car. So if you are only going to keep the car for a year. Just add a bigger oil cooler,and some brake cooling ducts and have fun.

    Once I switched from the Corvette to the Radical temperature issues were a thing of the past. The car has so much cooling capacity that it is difficult to keep enough temperature in the car. I have to put tape over a third of the oil and water inlets so the car can get up to temperature. Also break wear is nearly non existent....

    Charley
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimt View Post
    With aero and A7s, it will still blow up.
    Yeah and even without aero it's just a matter of time. My recommendation to those who ask is not to drive at ACS on sticky tires without a dry sump. You are probably OK up to around 1.25 lateral G's, but the LS engine does not like sustained left hand turns as the oil accumulates in the passenger head and the pump will intermittently starve for oil. I know I've damaged my LS6 engines on that track in the old T1 days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    Ok, pretend I'm as fast as the fastest of you guys (I'm not, but I'm no slouch either). Low mileage, clean c5 z06 with: Ron Davies radiator/ oil cooler, 315 NT01s square, seat, sway bars and c6 z06 calipers. Is this something youd be able to do 5-10 HPDEs on and be happy with? Or do you think the brakes would still struggle a bit and $1700 more for the AP brakes would save a lot of headaches? Same with the tranny cooler?

    I'm thinking I won't have the car for more than a year or so and want to keep it pretty clean/ stockish to keep costs down and help resale. I'm also still on the fence about just getting another s2000 but the c5 seems super fun and I'd like a hp car for once. Especially a hp car that can corner.
    You only want to keep the car for a year? I would look for one that has already been track prepped and try to get a deal on it. That's going to be a lot of effort for a 1 year car IMO. If you are going to swap brake calipers, I would not go C6Z. Choose an aftermarket brand instead. Ideally with 14" 2 piece rotors. Also, you can get away without a tranny cooler if you don't use 2nd gear. Once you start using 2nd, the tranny will overheat in my experience.
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