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Thread: Oil temp rise on hard lefts?

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    Default Oil temp rise on hard lefts?

    So at Chuckwalla recently I observed a strange phenomenon on hard sustained lefts over 1.2G, the oil temp spikes very temporarily.

    If you look at the highlighted section of the below data you can see spikes from ~240 degrees to 280 degrees and then back. This seems to happen when I approach sustained high G loads on lefts.

    You can see i dont seem to be indicating any oil starvation (pressure and temp measured in sandwich adapter). The car has a canton pan, and an upgraded radiator but otherwise no oil cooling or additional capacity.

    Anyone care to venture a guess whats happening here?

    cvr_oil_temps.png

    Also video of the corner in question (corner starts about 1:28 in case the link doesnt cooperate).

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZPQkv-mf9w8&t=76s

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    There are some strange things going on with the oil pressure trace. Why the wild swings in oil pressure? Our OP traces are smooth (like the oil temp channel) when the car is at rpm. What HZ are you sampling the data at?
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    Looks like 10hz for everything coming off the Canbus (which is everything)

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    How about a loose connection causing a resistance spike?

    Check your grounds too.
    Last edited by robburgoon; 11-27-2016 at 05:18 PM.

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    Here is an sample from one of our cars. Notice the dip in oil pressure. In the middle of a left hand corner. Oil level was down about 3/4 of a qt. Yikes. Sampling at 20hz with a bling MSI 0-150 psi sensor.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails capture.png  
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    Hmm both the oil pressure and temp share the same ground through the K-pro board which is how hondata recommended it be wired.

    Wired like this.

    Hondata K-Series Programmable ECU Help

    and

    Hondata K-Series Programmable ECU Help

    I did have it apart about a hundred times sorting out the secret handshake between AIM and Hondata so its plausible there is a iffy connection but I wouldnt expect it to vary that much second to second. An iffy connection would likely either work or not, no?

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    Oh I am also using the Hondata recommended Autometer 2246 pressure sender. Zero bling but should be functional enough.

    Mark,
    Where are you drawing pressure from in that trace? Is it possible im seeing the pressure irregularity because its in a sandwich adapter and not a block oil galley?


    Also any clues on the original question? the temp spike? This is a new phenomenon, ive got data from several other tracks but CVR is the first time I saw the oil temp do that.

    Here is the same data from Buttonwillow 1CCW back in Sept and it was MUCH warmer that day, oil temps didnt do anything close to this, and riverside is probably just as agressive a long left going CCW as turn 8 at CVR

    bwccw1_oil_temps.png
    Last edited by anorexicpoodle; 11-27-2016 at 07:08 PM.

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    Tapping into the block at the same location as the OEM sensor. The only time I've used a sandwich adapter for the sender location is in conjunction with analog gauges. The dip in my graph was CCW in the middle of Riverside.
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    Hm ok. The S2K doesnt have an OEM "sensor" per se, but has a hobbes switch in the vtec solenoid which wouldnt tap into or replace in good concience. I could go pan or sandwich adapter for temp but for pressure my only real option is in the sandwich adapter.

    Looking at some other S2K data logs the oil pressure seems "noisy" on those too....perhaps a side effect of having to capture it at a sandwich adapter.

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    Reading oil pressure off a sandwich adapter is a hard place to read from. Have you looked into oil cooling?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OJR View Post
    Reading oil pressure off a sandwich adapter is a hard place to read from. Have you looked into oil cooling?
    Yep but if these Temps are even close and the Pyrometer and the oil analysis tends to agree it's not needed with the extra quart capacity I have from the Canton pan.

    I'm going to wire a auxiliary ground in to the circuit tomorrow and see if it quiets the noise.

    What's most interesting is the oil temp readings have been rock solid varying only with ambient but never getting over 257 until these spikes.

    There is a theory from s2ki that on the right side of the motor which is the hot side, there is a secondary air injection duct right over the exhaust and in this corner all the oil would be draining on the right side of the motor, and when at speed that duct is just a pocket of heat. Which is driving the heat spikes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anorexicpoodle View Post
    Yep but if these Temps are even close and the Pyrometer and the oil analysis tends to agree it's not needed with the extra quart capacity I have from the Canton pan.

    I'm going to wire a auxiliary ground in to the circuit tomorrow and see if it quiets the noise.

    What's most interesting is the oil temp readings have been rock solid varying only with ambient but never getting over 257 until these spikes.

    There is a theory from s2ki that on the right side of the motor which is the hot side, there is a secondary air injection duct right over the exhaust and in this corner all the oil would be draining on the right side of the motor, and when at speed that duct is just a pocket of heat. Which is driving the heat spikes.
    I'm guessing the oil goes something like this:

    sump->pump->sandwich/sensor->filter->gallery->everywhere->sump

    The sump should be at a stable temp. It can't jump 30* in one corner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    I'm guessing the oil goes something like this:

    sump->pump->sandwich/sensor->filter->gallery->everywhere->sump

    The sump should be at a stable temp. It can't jump 30* in one corner.
    Agreed, the whole thing feels fishy. Hence my confusion. Im going to start by seeing if I can make the oil pressure readings make sense as Mark pointed out. At least then we should have credibility on the temp readings.

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    The plot thickens. I checked all the wiring including jerking/wiggling it with probes attached to see if there was an iffy connection and its all solid.

    Im now leaning toward it being related to some kind of electrical interference. I drove the car to work this AM and datalogged the drive in and it seems the erratic nature of the reading calms down when the engine isnt being driven hard.

    Im going to re-route the wiring completely away from the firewall so it doesnt have to pass by the ignition coil and battery and see if that makes a difference.

    Thoughts?

    streetdatalog.png

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    100+ psi oil pressure at speed and warm? That doesn't seem right. What is the factory oil pressure spec on a S2k?

    Edit: AP2? Poking around it seems that 85+ psi is not unusual. Maybe the VTEC needs high oil pressure to operate. Curious - when the VTEC opens does the op drop?

    Mark
    Last edited by markn; 11-30-2016 at 11:17 AM.
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    The probe reads in absolute, so subtract atmosphere. When i turn the key on but before ive started the motor the pressure probe shows 14 ish, (not quite 14.7 as im not at sea level)

    Then im not in vtec for this datalog which will sap ~20psi so that definitely seems normal for 100psi indicated cruising.

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    Have you tried replacing the temp transducer?

    Sometimes sensors will fail and could experience bigger output drift over temperature than normal.
    1:46.3X @ BRP CW13 - 11/12/15 (400 whp, TD )
    1:26.82 @ WSIR - 10/12/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:22.7X @ SOW CW - 7/31/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:21.6X @ SOW CCW - 7/30/14 (400whp, Nt01)
    2:00.01 @ CVR CW - 9/28/13 (350whp, RS3)
    1:48.22 @ ACS - 11/23/13 (400whp, RS3)

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    Just to keep this alive, the temp reading fluctuations were getting worse until I re-routed the sensor wiring trunk away from the ignition coils and the electric steering control box and things immediately calmed right down on the temp probe.

    Still getting a little pulsing on the pressure but that might be a function of being in a sandwich adapter and not a block oil galley.


    I might have a look at replacing some of my coil packs. It feels like one of them might have bad insulation and have been causing the noise for stuff run near it.
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    +++

    "Success is not the absence of problems it's your persistence through them."
    - Aisha Taylor
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    +++

    "Success is not the absence of problems it's your persistence through them."
    - Aisha Taylor
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