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Thread: Travel without the supercharger network

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    The investor capital is pretty finite, and they do have a pretty hefty "burn rate". And you can only bleed so long before your dead.

    But, in the meantime, the man is so impressive - no matter what.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    On the topic of recharging, this vid was pretty fun. Check out the F1 sized refueling probe at 13:00, needed to go from 10-80% in 5 minutes and pass the 1575amps required to recharge a tesla sized battery that fast.



    There's also some math on the power substation you'd need to service a medium sized recharging center for example at buttonwillow or tejon pass.
    Alvin knows math (kinda)
    Rob, socialism has no issues, it has been defined as the perfect social organisation, also proved to be utopia. The socialism itself is the issue. You can take this from someone with vast experience on the subject

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Ok, so I guess Lutz was not saying that Tesla benefits from socialist policies, but was just saying that it's tearing through investors money at a crazy rate? Are the investors the "other people's money" that he's talking about? Seems like a tortured analogy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Ok, so I guess Lutz was not saying that Tesla benefits from socialist policies, but was just saying that it's tearing through investors money at a crazy rate? Are the investors the "other people's money" that he's talking about? Seems like a tortured analogy.
    My interpretation is "Yes."
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    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    HOW HE SEES IT General Motors is a cautionary tale for U.S.

    In 2005, Harley Davidson surpassed GM in market capital.

    thinking how stupid that is and me being a savvy investor: you always buy it on the low, and sell it on the high. I bought GM stock.

    Couple of years later. GM stock went to ZERO
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 04-16-2017 at 01:36 PM.
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    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
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    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
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    But, even if you sold, you - and everyone else - became an owner again - who later sold "your" shares at a profit - when the Feds stepped in and bought equity.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    But, even if you sold, you - and everyone else - became an owner again - who later sold "your" shares at a profit - when the Feds stepped in and bought equity.
    ??? That's not how it worked. It just went to ZERO (ok, technically it was a few cents). Within a week, it came back as a different GM at $12 (forgot exact number). But they are NOT the same shares. Original GM stock holder got nothing.

    Fed didn't buy equity from old stock holder. The company first went bankrupt. THEN Fed bought it, it is now a different company that Fed bought. Just has the same name. Old GM and new GM is NOT the same company.

    This was hard for me to understand capitalism. One day I lost all my stock investment but The GM dealerships were still there, factory still there. A new stock appeared. It is like nothing changed except for my shares that disappeared.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 04-16-2017 at 11:16 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    A new stock appeared.
    Ready to screw the next batch of sheeple...

    Unfortunately this story has been played out before and will be again. Even giants like GM, Kmart, or Delta airlines can go away and come back as if nothing happened leaving the faceless public holding the bag. What is the difference between corporate BK and theft? When you steal you go to jail!

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    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
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    Here's an idea - just have a network of battery-swapping stations. You pull into the station, depleted battery drops out of the bottom of the car, new battery pops in, off you go.

    In the meantime, your old battery goes on a charger (maybe solar/wind powered?) to get ready for the next customer. Basically similar concept to propane tank swaps.

    Having an industry-standard battery and swapping system would be key.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post
    Here's an idea - just have a network of battery-swapping stations. You pull into the station, depleted battery drops out of the bottom of the car, new battery pops in, off you go.

    In the meantime, your old battery goes on a charger (maybe solar/wind powered?) to get ready for the next customer. Basically similar concept to propane tank swaps.

    Having an industry-standard battery and swapping system would be key.
    Please someone convince me that a gallon of gas is inferior to a gallon of electrons. There are all these physical laws of conservation. Electricity is made mostly by petroleum powered generators. How is using gas to make electrons to then turn wheels efficient? If all our electricity was from solar/wind/hydro I could see it but it isn't.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Please someone convince me that a gallon of gas is inferior to a gallon of electrons. There are all these physical laws of conservation. Electricity is made mostly by petroleum powered generators. How is using gas to make electrons to then turn wheels efficient? If all our electricity was from solar/wind/hydro I could see it but it isn't.
    It is getting closer for that last statement, everything has a learning/building curve. Just look at air travel 40 years ago and today. It was way too expensive back then for the average person. But now you can fly across country for less that it would take in fuel to drive it.

    Patience,

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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeD View Post
    It is getting closer for that last statement, everything has a learning/building curve. Patience,
    Yes I get that but. "Patience" is like forcing "global warming" down everyone's throat. A bunch of people say it so it must be true? I don't think we are proving the technology. But people are certainly incentivizing it and teachers are teaching it to our kids with very little proof. I'm not a debbie downer on the new technology I just want full disclosure.
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GraemeD View Post
    It is getting closer for that last statement, everything has a learning/building curve. Just look at air travel 40 years ago and today. It was way too expensive back then for the average person. But now you can fly across country for less that it would take in fuel to drive it.

    Patience,
    Lower costs of airfare is mostly due to deregulation of the airline industry and lower fuel costs.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Please someone convince me that a gallon of gas is inferior to a gallon of electrons. There are all these physical laws of conservation. Electricity is made mostly by petroleum powered generators. How is using gas to make electrons to then turn wheels efficient? If all our electricity was from solar/wind/hydro I could see it but it isn't.
    Take a physics class. Electric motors are way more efficient than internal combustion at converting energy into force.

    Also, you can burn cleaner fuels (natural gas) more efficiently at a single central point (power plant) than having thousands of individual internal combustion engines running about.

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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post
    Take a physics class. Electric motors are way more efficient than internal combustion at converting energy into force.

    Also, you can burn cleaner fuels (natural gas) more efficiently at a single central point (power plant) than having thousands of individual internal combustion engines running about.
    Young FatBillyBob has a doctorate degree. I am sure he has had a physics class and a few more than that.....
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    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
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    Its the same reason we don't we have each individual house/apartment producing electricity by its own gas generator. Internal combustion engines are not very efficient. Tons of energy wasted to heat and friction. I forget the exact number, but something like 27% or so of the energy released in hydrocarbon combustion is translated to kinetic energy; the rest is wasted. Electric motors are way higher, I want to say 90% ish? Been a while since I took electricity & magnetism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Please someone convince me that a gallon of gas is inferior to a gallon of electrons. There are all these physical laws of conservation. Electricity is made mostly by petroleum powered generators. How is using gas to make electrons to then turn wheels efficient? If all our electricity was from solar/wind/hydro I could see it but it isn't.

    Electric power has the potential to be really green if you have solar panels on your roof.

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    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
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    http://www.environment.ucla.edu/medi...012-rh-ptd.pdf

    Long story short: Energy from our electric grid is cleaner than extracting, refining, and burning gasoline. Additionally, even if you count the emissions and energy use incurred by manufacturing, shipping, and disposal, electric cars still come out ahead of conventional cars, by about 35-50% less emissions (depending on where you live and the type of power grid you get electricity from)..

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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post
    Its the same reason we don't we have each individual house/apartment producing electricity by its own gas generator. Internal combustion engines are not very efficient. Tons of energy wasted to heat and friction. I forget the exact number, but something like 27% or so of the energy released in hydrocarbon combustion is translated to kinetic energy; the rest is wasted. Electric motors are way higher, I want to say 90% ish? Been a while since I took electricity & magnetism.
    Yes true but you have to look at the whole stream of electric production and consumption and the whole stream of gas production and consumption and compare apples to apples. In fact a lot of electricity is being produced by burning fuel! You can't just cherry pick one part of the gas/electric equation anymore than you can say you bought stocks right after the 1987 crash and you are a genius since you have 10X what you had in 1987.

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