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Thread: WRX To Get Turbo Version of (FA) BRZ Motor.

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    Default WRX To Get Turbo Version of (FA) BRZ Motor.


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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Doubtful. Modern Toyota shuns turbos and Subaru would be loathe to one up their flagship car, the WRX STi. This is sort of like Porsche handicapping the superior Cayman so that it will not outperform the 911.
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    this new sadly also sounds like there will not be a return of subaru to WRC anytime soo since the 2.0 will not fit with the new rules.
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    I think it'd be cool to see. Maybe they'll put in a detuned version to make a BRZ STi with 250hp so it doesn't compete with the WRX or STi.

    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Doubtful. Modern Toyota shuns turbos and Subaru would be loathe to one up their flagship car, the WRX STi. This is sort of like Porsche handicapping the superior Cayman so that it will not outperform the 911.
    Sorry to go off topic, but that's just nonsense made up by journalists (Cayman vs 911). If you want to see what it takes for a 987 to outperform a 997 then look at the 911 design Cayman of Loren Beggs. There is very little 987 left in that car. Many POC/PCA Caymans have been built to beat the 911, but were way off pace.

    The turbo BRZ would probably outperform the WRX STi though.
    Last edited by 5:04; 01-31-2013 at 10:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5:04 View Post
    Sorry to go off topic, but that's just nonsense made up by journalists (Cayman vs 911). If you want to see what it takes for a 987 to outperform a 997 then look at the 911 design Cayman of Loren Beggs. There is very little 987 left in that car. Many POC/PCA Caymans have been built to beat the 911, but were way off pace..
    Not buying it. Take what is essentially the same hardware in a lighter car with significantly better weight distribution and lower polar moment of inertia and it will be faster. If we are talking about OEM production car hardware then yes, the 911 gets better bits. That isn't the question. Bolt the exact same bit to each tub and the Cayman will be faster. Seeing your avatar, I understand your bias though

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    This article was posted Dec 2011. lol?
    Do you understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 5:04 View Post
    Sorry to go off topic, but that's just nonsense made up by journalists (Cayman vs 911). If you want to see what it takes for a 987 to outperform a 997 then look at the 911 design Cayman of Loren Beggs. There is very little 987 left in that car. Many POC/PCA Caymans have been built to beat the 911, but were way off pace..
    911 have more development. more racing/setup knowledge, more of them. probably have "better" drivers in general, as it is an older design. many have been racing it forever (from teen till death) on the same track using roughly the same equipment. you can race any car, after 1,000 laps, anybody can come pretty close to what the car is capable of. Especially there are 500 other drivers racing the same car as you are (including 100 pro teams), and have 1,000 laps /each on the exact same track. but if you take a new platform, a new driver (new in terms of driving the car), it will take them a while to get close to it. Even then, 911 has a 40 years head start.

    given same equipment, Cayman won't be significantly faster than a 911 even given tons of development. but will be faster nonetheless.
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    I saw a ton of FRS sitting at my local dealer lot, does that mean they aren't selling ?
    manufacturers often wait till sales drop off before introducing the next hot version to garner more interest/publicity.
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    Continuing the off-topic discussion, Grand Am GX Class Cayman runs with a 911 engine. I haven't seen specifics about the rest of the car and I don't know know how much power the engine makes compared to GT Class 911s. I was surprised to see the cars racing in Grand Am in that trim.
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    On topic, supposedly Subaru has adamantly said that they will never make a turbo BRZ. They seem to have been pretty open about what they would and wouldn't do too. IIRC there was a turbo engine on display at one of the releases. I also heard packaging is difficult in the FRS/BRZ.

    Off topic
    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Not buying it. Take what is essentially the same hardware in a lighter car with significantly better weight distribution and lower polar moment of inertia and it will be faster. If we are talking about OEM production car hardware then yes, the 911 gets better bits. That isn't the question. Bolt the exact same bit to each tub and the Cayman will be faster. Seeing your avatar, I understand your bias though

    I recall the VW Fox getting a washer welded into it's exhaust so it wouldn't be faster than the Rabbit GTi.
    Naturally I'm a little biased I'm not much of a fan boy either though.

    However that being said, I shared the same opinion that the Cayman would be faster like for like. From what I've seen at PCA and POC races and from what many Porsche builders have said/done it doesn't appear to be the case, and that's what changed my opinion. There have been many well set up Cayman's with RS engines that were built well, yet they never lived up to the hype. I believe that it comes down to what William said about the development. The 911 chassis has been Porsche's focus for almost 50 years. Can the Cayman be fast? Yes, but from what I've seen it's unlikely for a Cayman to outperform a 997 or 991 on track.

    I should also add that I love the Cayman/Boxster and wouldn't care if it beat the 911. In fact one of my favorite Porsches is the 911 Design 987 that destroys all 911's short of the RSR & their wide body 987 Sypder.
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    Last edited by 5:04; 01-31-2013 at 02:54 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I saw a ton of FRS sitting at my local dealer lot, does that mean they aren't selling ?
    manufacturers often wait till sales drop off before introducing the next hot version to garner more interest/publicity.
    What dealer is that?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    What dealer is that?
    Glendora. it is a tiny dealership, yet they had 5 outside. more out back.

    I am not sure, it could be they just had the shipment in when I got there. just wondering if sales are down...
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    Quote Originally Posted by tq3z View Post
    This article was posted Dec 2011. lol?
    Good lord! Sorry 'bout that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I saw a ton of FRS sitting at my local dealer lot, does that mean they aren't selling ?
    manufacturers often wait till sales drop off before introducing the next hot version to garner more interest/publicity.
    Good question. On the other hand, they could be itting on their delivery quota and selling them slowly at "full boat".

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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    Good question. On the other hand, they could be itting on their delivery quota and selling them slowly at "full boat".
    It may be regional. I think there is a 3-6 month wait in my area and its realy bad in Australia...apparently something like 3-6 years before they even get them. On the other hand I have seen people comment how they have seen a couple lots with a handful. Mind you this is still relative, I see tons of Evo's, Vette's, 370's sitting on every manufacturer lot. On the other hand, I can also see some people being underwhelmed with the car, ala ITR syndrome that happened back when the car is released. The car is pretty plain and what it does offer that is special, I think a lot of people cannot appreciate. The steering feedback, balance and dynamics is what I appreciate most about the car but I think many average driver's don't have the training or seat time and sensitivity to appreciate the best parts of the car.

    Personally I love this car to death, It has everything I want and nothing I don't. Its like a modern day e30 M3!
    Last edited by heelntoe; 01-31-2013 at 09:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I was surprised to see the cars racing in Grand Am in that trim.
    They were in GX. I didn't know that was for "experimental" chassis, so that they could later be equalized in to the GT field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Doubtful. Modern Toyota shuns turbos and Subaru would be loathe to one up their flagship car, the WRX STi. This is sort of like Porsche handicapping the superior Cayman so that it will not outperform the 911.
    Actually some of the best Toyota engines have been Turbo and they are coming back. The 2jz and 3sgte were stout engines that could take a beating on the track. Todays Toyota engins suck. Hopefully we can get a new Toyota sports cars with a Toyota engine and not another rebadged subaru.

    Toyota engine plans:

    Key elements of Toyota's plan:

    -- A 2.5-liter direct-injection, Atkinson cycle engine, to be deployed first in hybrids in 2013.

    -- A 2.0-liter downsized turbo-charged engine in 2014.

    -- A shift to CVTs in small- to mid-sized vehicles.

    -- More six- and eight-speed automatic transmissions for larger cars.


    Read more: Toyota overhauls engine plans - Autoweek
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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprint View Post
    Actually some of the best Toyota engines have been Turbo and they are coming back. The 2jz and 3sgte were stout engines that could take a beating on the track. Todays Toyota engins suck. Hopefully we can get a new Toyota sports cars with a Toyota engine and not another rebadged subaru.

    Toyota engine plans:

    Key elements of Toyota's plan:

    -- A 2.5-liter direct-injection, Atkinson cycle engine, to be deployed first in hybrids in 2013.

    -- A 2.0-liter downsized turbo-charged engine in 2014.

    -- A shift to CVTs in small- to mid-sized vehicles.

    -- More six- and eight-speed automatic transmissions for larger cars.


    Read more: Toyota overhauls engine plans - Autoweek
    Interesting news. I for one welcome Toyota back to the land of forced induction.
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    A turbo FRS may not be all that likely for Toyota (as opposed to Subaru). Instead, their hybrid experience seems to be pointing in the direction of KERS system. Seems like Subie and Scion could eventually provide different solutions.

    The interesting thing is that a lot of relatively inexperienced guys (like me) could wind up purchasing the higher powered cars and totally miss the benefit (and fun) of learning to drive in a well sorted, lower powered car.

    Toyota considering KERS Hybrid system for Scion FR-S

    Faster Toyota GT86 to get KERS? - BBC Top Gear
    Last edited by Loose Caboose; 02-01-2013 at 07:39 PM.

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