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Thread: Wing Failure at VIR Going 140+mph

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    Just Another Member o-townFLA's Avatar
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    Default Wing Failure at VIR Going 140+mph

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LnmD7kxHUw[/YOUTUBE]


    Pics Before:








    Pics After:












    -MattDennison
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    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    Believe this was already posted but scary nonetheless
    Do you understand?

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    The risers don't look like they were too high a little thin, maybe the whole wing and risers tore away from the trunk lid.

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    momofoolio Racing momofoolio's Avatar
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    wow holly shxt!
    how did the wing fail!?
    glad the driver walked away... seems like a very solid impact to me @@
    momofoolio Racing - http://momofoolio.webs.com

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by momofoolio View Post
    wow holly shxt!
    how did the wing fail!?
    glad the driver walked away... seems like a very solid impact to me @@
    I found the post at NASA forums

    http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....st=0&sk=t&sd=a

    Looks like the mount on the wing broke

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    BOOM!Tough Actin Tinactin minorthreat's Avatar
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    wow no fun there! glad hes ok! must have been scary! i wonder if i would have noticed the wing fly off?
    Jairo "Hido" J

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    Gearhead gixxer_drew's Avatar
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    When you start making man downforce you can't mount the wing like that anymore.
    Andrew M Brilliant
    Aerodynamicist / Race Engineer

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    Just Another Member o-townFLA's Avatar
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    who says a Autopower bolt-in cage won't save ya...?
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    Senior Member BigMac88's Avatar
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    Wow! Glad the driver walked away.
    Hella Functional

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    Corners > Straights JDMxDB8's Avatar
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    HOLY MOLY! Glad the driver wasn't seriously injured.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Element Tuning View Post
    Here are the photos of the failure points:



    from:
    http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...1960614&page=5

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    momofoolio Racing momofoolio's Avatar
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    gosh how is it even possible
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    http://slickauto.net/ jeffsl's Avatar
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    start reading from page 4...

    http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic....&sd=a&start=30

    Pay special attention to posts by rocktman1 (Jim Dulaney, Fulcrum Aeroworks) and mwh911rs (Mark W. Hilburger, engineer at NASA with a Ph.D. in structures). Their posts seem very well thought out and may help to answer some questions.

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    Gearhead gixxer_drew's Avatar
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    My opinion... I think the problem with that wing is REALLY simple and people are looking down the wrong path.

    What happened from those images as far as I can see is exactly what I suspected and have seen before. The load on the mounts that breaks them is not vertical or drag forces on the wing its not because of the increased aero load of the wing up higher its because of something totally different.

    I'm not sure how to explain without defining the axes first. X is fore to aft on the car Y is driver side to passenger side (left to right) Z is vertical (up to the sky).

    Wings mounted to deck lids have a tendency to sway laterally on the car on the Y axis.

    The car is encountering centrifugal forces around a corner against the Y axis, but more importantly and more suddenly, the inertia of the wing against roll motions, like going over a rumble strip... or a bump effecting one side of the car more than the other. If you watch the moment of failure in the video, motions JUST like that one are what I mean.

    Especially bumps in succession depending on their frequency can interact with the motion of the wing sway at its natural frequency oscillation.

    But yah thats sort of going on a tangent.. my point is wings encounter lots of forces that aren't just downforce on the Z axis or aft of the car (drag) on the X axis. Another good example is the end plates in yaw against oncoming air.

    The wing strut lower is just mounted to a deck lid and the deck lid flexes but the wing strut stays rigid. Walk up to your wing push on it from the side and watch what flexes you'll see what I mean. The force to put a bending load on the decklid has a moment arm by the wing strut length because the mass of the wing is at the end of the arm, the longer the arm the greater force applied at the mounts. They have now increased the leverage of any forces on the Y axis and this load is shared by two points the upper and lower wing strut attachments at deck lid and base of the airfoil. The deck has a large area to bend as the wing sways, the upper mounts to the wing do not. There is a bending load which can be endured before failure which is elasticity and the total load is less for a smaller piece of material. You can bend a longer piece of anything further than a shorter piece before you break it.

    The deck can bend many degrees as it has a larger area to bend and has open ends that can flex as they are unattached however the upper attachment points have only a few degrees before failure.

    Now I'm an aero guy not a composite guy, but If you look at those mounts and how they fractured it definitely looks like a load on that axis. A load on the X axis would have fractured from the hole where the forward most bolt went through. Bending loads are the worst by far, compression or tensile load failure? No way.

    Here is a drawing to explain


    Here is a proper mount system example:


    Just like we do on the GT2 car:


    PS I'm for hire at a very reasonable hourly rate It might save your life!

    My $.02
    Last edited by gixxer_drew; 04-08-2010 at 07:37 PM.
    Andrew M Brilliant
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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    I agree with you Andrew 100%. That was my suspicion from the beginning knowing what I know about that wing and how they mount to the deck lid and the wing mount itself.

    While there is much intelligent engineering formula work embedded in that thread I was surprised none of them picked up on your suspected cause of failure. So far as of my reading 15 minutes ago they have not even included that possible cause for consideration. The one guy is right about how the failures often end-up being different than what he initially suspects. Maybe he should put down the slide rule and go look at the parts and the failed component.


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    Gearhead gixxer_drew's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I agree with you Andrew 100%. That was my suspicion from the beginning knowing what I know about that wing and how they mount to the deck lid and the wing mount itself.

    While there is much intelligent engineering formula work embedded in that thread I was surprised none of them picked up on your suspected cause of failure. So far as of my reading 15 minutes ago they have not even included that possible cause for consideration. The one guy is right about how the failures often end-up being different than what he initially suspects. Maybe he should put down the slide rule and go look at the parts and the failed component.

    I hope I don't ruffle anyones feathers...I think if I was trying to figure this out from a lab I probably would have thought the same thing. I was trying to keep my mouth shut about it too
    Andrew M Brilliant
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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Wow, are we overly dependent on wings to keep us on the track? I used to think that wings were used to neutralize lift.

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    Just Another Member o-townFLA's Avatar
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    Drews "XYZ" theory was applied to the Evasive Evo last year at BW during a RTA session. The failure occurred while in Riverside. Luckily they only resulted in a high speed spin out and not a horrific rollover.

    I cant find any pics of the uprights/brackets, but it was evident that the "Y" theory occurred. Because the bracket was bent over from left-to-right.

    Evasive's fix:

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    momofoolio Racing momofoolio's Avatar
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    will adding two cables really fix the problem?
    ive seen the similar setup on other cars too...
    i drive to the track so i really need my trunk to work...
    how can i get a more secure way to mount the wing??
    i dont want to lose my over priced wing and most likely lose my entire car at turn 8 at big willow
    momofoolio Racing - http://momofoolio.webs.com

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    Senior Member Matt Andrews's Avatar
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    the evasive "fix" only fixes it if you assume the center eyebolt has no flex. It helps I'm sure, but don't think its a "fix".

    not to mention from what has rubbed off on me by hanging out with Drew, those wires introduce a suprising amount of drag and lower the effeciency of the wing.

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