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Thread: What you would rather buy?

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd R View Post
    As someone was has been tracking a 996 C2 for over 6 years, I say go for the Cayman. I have said it many times, the balance is just vastly superior to the rear engine 911. Your learning curve will be much higher as well trying to master the rear engined beast compared to the Cayman.

    That being said I did own a 335i e90 and I am sure the M3 is similar in the respect that it is a really nice street car.
    Do you have any information about the tracking/beat it up reliability of the Cayman S?

    I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading something a while back about track reliability problems with the Boxter. Anyone know if this is a factor?

  2. #22
    JJ1
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    I'd like to hear how well they handle a beating also. Here is a good candidate, but Im not quite ready to pull the trigger.

    2008 Porsche Cayman S

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    Senior Member Johnny_Se7en's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    I'd like to hear how well they handle a beating also. Here is a good candidate, but Im not quite ready to pull the trigger.

    2008 Porsche Cayman S
    Pelican Technical Article: Common Boxster Engine Problems and Failures - 986 / 987
    Go for a 2009 if you can the 2005 to 2008 have had some problems.
    If nothing happens and there is no one around why did it not happen?

  4. #24
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Bone stock Cayman S for DD.
    $6000 Spec Miata with a logbook.

    You will have a better street car.
    You will have a better track car.
    You will have more fun dicing close quarters with other 120whp Miatas.
    The money you save on Porsche consumables will fund an Alfa school racing license to waiver into NASA and SCCA.
    No semi- track car hassles like squeaky race pads, constant $70 oil changes, hard riding track suspension on your commute, etc.

    My .02
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    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    I agree with Emilio. The argument against would be very difficult.

    Comparing consumables and maintenance costs there is no question. You will learn a lot and you won't have to worry about such an expensive car on track which will definitely stifle your progress as a driver.

  6. #26
    JJ1
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Bone stock Cayman S for DD.
    $6000 Spec Miata with a logbook.

    You will have a better street car.
    You will have a better track car.
    You will have more fun dicing close quarters with other 120whp Miatas.
    The money you save on Porsche consumables will fund an Alfa school racing license to waiver into NASA and SCCA.
    No semi- track car hassles like squeaky race pads, constant $70 oil changes, hard riding track suspension on your commute, etc.

    My .02
    I've been considering this but instead of the spec miata I would keep my s2k and buy a c300 or is250 for a nice daily. But I like the idea of getting to track one of the aforementioned cars and love the idea of driving a nicer car from San Diego to Buttonwillow.

  7. #27
    Senior Member Todd R's Avatar
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    The race car argument is a whole other matter....

    With a race car comes:
    Tow vehicle/trailer/storage of said items.

    Consumables are probably 2x a Miata mainly due to tires but you are going faster...

    I have heard Caymans have an issue with power steering cooling on track. Adding a cooler to the existing hard line loop and an underdrive crank pulley solves this issue.
    Other than that you might want to add a transmission cooler if you really track it hard in hot weather with an added LSD.
    A 3rd radiator is a good idea ($600 kit from Porsche)
    Stock suspension should be fine for track/street given the bumpy nature of our Socal tracks...
    Pagid Yellow pads work great on track and are not that bad on the street.
    The intermediate shaft issue you may have heard shouldn't be a problem at all and has been blown out of proportion. I have talked to dealer techs who say they seem to go out on cars that are babied and not driven much. From what a gather the oil collects moisture when not driven for extended periods which gets into the sealed bearing. I have a few thousand track miles on my car with no engine issues other than two failed catalytic converters (replaced under emissions warranty) and a rear main seal that was dripping oil (replaced with updated part and problem solved).

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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Bone stock Cayman S for DD.
    $6000 Spec Miata with a logbook.

    You will have a better street car.
    You will have a better track car.
    You will have more fun dicing close quarters with other 120whp Miatas.
    The money you save on Porsche consumables will fund an Alfa school racing license to waiver into NASA and SCCA.
    No semi- track car hassles like squeaky race pads, constant $70 oil changes, hard riding track suspension on your commute, etc.

    My .02
    While I generally agree with this, Todd points out that you are not including the cost of tow vehicle including insurance, trailer, and storage for both. Gas to tow to and from track is way more than gas in a street/track car.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    I've been considering this but instead of the spec miata I would keep my s2k and buy a c300 or is250 for a nice daily. But I like the idea of getting to track one of the aforementioned cars and love the idea of driving a nicer car from San Diego to Buttonwillow.
    Keeping the S and getting a nice daily sounds like the best scenario. I understand the appeal of tracking one of those european cars, but I doubt that you're going to have that much more fun at the track in one of those vs. your S. The idea of tracking those other cars is appealing, but from a cost/benefit standpoint I think it's tough to justify the track experience in those other cars unless you've got money to burn.
    AP1 S2000 w/KW V3s on 255 RS3s (square setup)

  10. #30
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    AP1 is the most fun modified street car I ever drove on track, out of 350Z, Evo VIII RS, Audi B6 S4, Miata NA 1.8 (ITA/PTE), C4 Corvette (330 bhp), S2000, and '92 NSX.

    The Formula Mazda is more fun, but not the same thing at all.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  11. #31
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
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    You should buy whichever car you feel you can walk away from without any sort of reimbursement or payout.

    I have done many HPDEs, some as an instructor, and watched good students stuff their car. When the realization sets in that their insurance won't cover the damage, the mood goes from sadness to anxiety.

    $50k is a large sum. If you can afford to burn that and not give another thought about it, awesome! Otherwise, stick to a two-car plan.

    My Miata has flopped duties (flawlessly) between DD and track car, then back again over the years. It was always intended as a "second" car, a toy. I am always in the mindset that if I wad it up, I can buy another for $2k and swap over the undamaged stuff. I never had this mindset with the M3. Sure it was more powerful and fun to drive, but I couldn't justify the layout (investment) to have it destroyed on the track and merely walk away.

    Just my humble opinion, but one car for every purpose is expensive and risky. I carefully thought about your responses to other replies in this thread and you seem to want a compromise for this vehicle's purpose (street tires, removable extra interior, differential, etc.). It really does not make a lot of sense, no offense intended.

    Why not TWO street cars? One for DD, one for HPDE/track/canyons?
    Last edited by Force McCocken; 06-25-2012 at 06:05 PM.
    Yer pal,
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    I say 997. Its not hard to dial out the understeer.

  13. #33
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    Well, Mr. McCocken, I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. As far as running street tires goes, I like really simple cars. I go to the track for two purposes: have fun and challenge myself. If I have to swap wheels and brakes or trailer my car it adds more work and takes away from my enjoyment. So even with two cars my track car will follow these guidelines. Even considering these cars I was in the mindset that I would probably keep the car for a year and end up buying another s2k. I know it's hard to beat a s2k for fun factor but it would be cool (albeit expensive) to come to that conclusion based on the experience of driving the hell out of one of those Porsches or the m3. I'm 28, make pretty good money and don't have any kids. If I'm going to make a reckless decision on a car this may be the only chance I get. That being said, I think I'm ready to change the name of this thread to what daily driver would you buy for $25k?

  14. #34
    JJ1
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    Dino, with no logical or rational basis I've been leaning toward the 997 too. I just LOVE the way they feel and would get excited to see it in my garage every morning. Im all over the place! Can't choose.

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    911!
    JJ1 likes this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JJ1 View Post
    Well, Mr. McCocken, I'm starting to come to the same conclusion. As far as running street tires goes, I like really simple cars. I go to the track for two purposes: have fun and challenge myself. If I have to swap wheels and brakes or trailer my car it adds more work and takes away from my enjoyment. So even with two cars my track car will follow these guidelines. Even considering these cars I was in the mindset that I would probably keep the car for a year and end up buying another s2k. I know it's hard to beat a s2k for fun factor but it would be cool (albeit expensive) to come to that conclusion based on the experience of driving the hell out of one of those Porsches or the m3. I'm 28, make pretty good money and don't have any kids. If I'm going to make a reckless decision on a car this may be the only chance I get. That being said, I think I'm ready to change the name of this thread to what daily driver would you buy for $25k?
    Seat time is seat time. With a some exceptions, everything transfers over in experience. The point is, are you going to be more challenged by a lusty car with a bigger price tag or a cheaper one that is easier to maintain and keep behind the wheel and not in the paddock? Not sure if that is the experience you are looking for or memoir fodder for your middle years. Seen a number of caged cars driven to the track for this sort of purpose you are describing. Myself, I am considering a Civic DX for whatever class/any class I can run. Sure, it ain't sexy, but the cost is fantastically cheap! I guess my point is diamonds or coal, sh!t don't matter as long as you're in the game.
    Yer pal,
    Force

  17. #37
    JJ1
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    Every car I get in is easy to drive after mine. By "challenge" I mean continuing to improve personal lap times, fine tune braking, being more consistent, etc. I agree this can be done in any decent car. When I mentioned the experience of driving those cars I didnt mean that those cars would teach me something another car wouldnt, I just mean it would be awesome to track the kind of cars I typically only get to read articles about. These goals and my personal aspirations could and likely will change. I might end up buying a trailer and spec miata in the future to pursue wheel to wheel. For now I want a nicer car. I might just buy a nice daily and keep the s, but there is just an irrational want for one of these nice cars that might get the best of me. And one thing I can say for sure, if I buy any of those three cars it WILL see the track.

  18. #38
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I say a 997 to take it to clubs.
    and a Miata (street, but with suspension, roll bar and I/H/E) for track duty. this way you don't have to deal with tow vehicle and trailer.

    btw. if you tow a Miata on an open trailer. you can tow with a mid size SUV. I used to tow it with a Pathfinder, and had zero problem with it. this way you save money on Miata insurance, smog, registration...
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 06-26-2012 at 11:28 AM.
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    A couple other thoughts to consider:

    997 Carrera money is 996 Turbo money. Mind you, the 996 is considered the ugly duckling of the pair (ala 964 vs 993) because of the headlights? I don't mind them at all and supposedly the 997 got softer. As such, the 996 is more engaging to drive. A turbo makes for a great, great DD. A "chip" tune will give you 500hp, launch control, different octane maps...etc. The turbo also uses the GT1 block, as does the GT3. Its stupid tough and reliable (doesn't have the scary engine stories that the roadster and carrera have). If you don't get the PCCB brakes, your maintenance worries will be basically, well, oil changes. Thats it. There are original OEM turbos out there documented with over 200-300k. Plus you don't have to wind the motor out, it has "ample passing power" even near the bottom of the tach. Enough torque to bulldoze your driveway and is even winter worthy. It gets decent mileage too.

    As well, I think the 996 line is approaching the bottom of the curve. They took a sharp drop after the release of the 997, but a clean, well maintained 911 will only go so low. Although this should be just an after thought, if you were to buy a slightly older 911 and take care of it, you would probably be able to sell it for at least 50% of what you payed in 10 years from now. You can say that about very few cars, and even less that would be so versatile and reliable.

    Another thought comes to mind, if you are in it just for the challenge and fun. Have you considered karting? It would allow you to have a really nice street car, hell you could tow the kart setup with your nice streetcar. $:fun:training value is about as good as it gets, does not require a dedicated tow vehicle or too much space. I know a couple s2k and other track guys who moved on to karts and have not looked back. Its a profound change in their mentality and I have seen it happen more than once but they just don't care for racing cars. Its not worth the money to them anymore. The scary part is, they never lost it. They are even faster in their cars now once in a while when they take them out for a "hoot".

  20. #40
    JJ1
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    I have considered karting but have nothing to tow the kart and 996 turbo is all wheel drive. I'm only interested in RWD. I plan on doing a class at ACS with there TAGs.

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