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Thread: what makes a track day a good track day?

  1. #21
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    my biggest gripe:

    I could remember the days that track day organizers set maximum of 25 cars per session....
    now a day, 40 cars per session is the norm......
    I remember the days when my mechanic rode with me as I raced....
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  2. #22
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam View Post
    The absolute best track days I've had were under private rentals or when the NSX guys rented out Spring Mountain.

    Why?

    - Enter/exit the track whenever you wanted to!!! Open track day by the most basic definition of "open track"... track is open from 8a-12p. 1hr lunch break for workers. track is back hot from 1p-5p.
    - Low capacity... max of 45 cars
    - No "run" groups... with such a low turnout, people tend to be more courteous with passing
    - I have a group of friends whom I have dinner with weekly, have over for holidays and special occasions, etc that also love to track their cars... and we are anywhere from 12 cars to 20 cars strong. When half the attendees at an event are made up of your closest friends, it's a blast.

    Yes. That is wonderful if the people are similar skill. Nothing quite like being able to stop, make changes to the setup, drink some water, and drive right back out and test.

  3. #23
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    We should throw everyone into 1 run group. It will allow us to practice passing/getting passed. Treat it as 4-5 classes mixed in at T25 with various speed differential.

    How about a HPDE Race school/group. oxymoron? Ok, maybe Race group.
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  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    my biggest gripe:

    I could remember the days that track day organizers set maximum of 25 cars per session....
    now a day, 40 cars per session is the norm......
    SpeedVentures rule of thumb is 10 cars per mile of track. So 2.5 miles WSIR, maximum 25 cars. Don't know if they really follow that.
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  5. #25
    Senior Member azngotmilk's Avatar
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    i have never seen 40 cars on track for a hpde. but maybe im just lucky

  6. #26
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    I have seen 35 cars on Streets of Willow, watching from HTM. Speed Trials USA event a few years ago.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
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    Interesting, all sorts of interesting answers. I've toyed with two formats.

    The first one: a complete open session for advanced members only. My concept is that I would limit the number of cars on the track to a reasonable amount (the track I am considering is 3.5 miles), I was thinking about 25 or 30 cars. I'd then limit the participation to twice that amount, 50 to 60 cars. My guess is that this would be somewhat self-regulating; no one can stay out continuously all day. So, as cars come in, cars can go out, keeping it at no higher than that limit. The issue there is that considering costs, you'd have to charge at least $300/car to make the money back.

    Second concept is a typical day, but with three run groups; novice, intermediate, and advanced/instructors. Nothing new here, but longer sessions (30 min), at least five sessions.

    The advantage of the first one is no need for instructors, and considerably less management. The thing is, I am not certain on how many drivers are in the market for the first type of track day.

    Part of me doesn't care, because if I organize the first type, I'd get to be on the track too, most of the day. And that has real value to me - so just breaking even is sufficient.

    Definite things, though: paperless registration, with all waivers and paperwork done days BEFORE the event. No onsite registration. Catering onsite for lunch. Quick drivers meeting. Just some changes to the normal format that seem to make better sense. I'm a big believer in organization.

  8. #28
    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Not sure I follow the math -- where are you renting that you need to charge $300 x 60 = $18,000 to break even? I thought track rental for WSIR is a little over $4k for a weekend, a little over $5k for Buttonwillow? Seems like a lot leftover to cover insurance, cornerworkers, and fire/rescue/towing.

    I like concept one but for $300/car I would expect it to be 25-30 cars total, not 50-60. Essentially more of a weekend open test day. FWIW Speed District already does 50 car max at closer to the $200 mark.
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  9. #29
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    What track are you planning to rent?

    Chuckwalla does their own open track days like this: Parade laps to learn track from 8:45 a.m. to 9:00 a.m. Track open from 9:00 a.m. to 12:00 noon. Alternating half hour sessions, open passing group (starting on the hour) and point-by group (starting on the half-hour). You can run in both groups if you want, you just have to follow the rules of the group you are running in. Track closed for one hour for lunch from 12:00 noon to 1:00 p.m. Really great BBQ available for lunch. Track open from 1:00 p.m. to 4:00 p.m., same system as the morning session. Track closes at 4:00 p.m. If you really wanted, you could get 6 hours of seat time.

    Quote Originally Posted by arubenstein View Post
    Interesting, all sorts of interesting answers. I've toyed with two formats.

    The first one: a complete open session for advanced members only. My concept is that I would limit the number of cars on the track to a reasonable amount (the track I am considering is 3.5 miles), I was thinking about 25 or 30 cars. I'd then limit the participation to twice that amount, 50 to 60 cars. My guess is that this would be somewhat self-regulating; no one can stay out continuously all day. So, as cars come in, cars can go out, keeping it at no higher than that limit. The issue there is that considering costs, you'd have to charge at least $300/car to make the money back.

    Second concept is a typical day, but with three run groups; novice, intermediate, and advanced/instructors. Nothing new here, but longer sessions (30 min), at least five sessions.

    The advantage of the first one is no need for instructors, and considerably less management. The thing is, I am not certain on how many drivers are in the market for the first type of track day.

    Part of me doesn't care, because if I organize the first type, I'd get to be on the track too, most of the day. And that has real value to me - so just breaking even is sufficient.

    Definite things, though: paperless registration, with all waivers and paperwork done days BEFORE the event. No onsite registration. Catering onsite for lunch. Quick drivers meeting. Just some changes to the normal format that seem to make better sense. I'm a big believer in organization.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 08-29-2013 at 05:36 PM.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  10. #30
    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    ^ and Chuckwalla does it for a mere $175-200 day (depending on weekend and when you sign up)
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    ^ and Chuckwalla does it for a mere $175-200 day (depending on weekend and when you sign up)
    The financial dynamic is a little different. These are track days offered by the owner of Chuckwalla. He doesn't have to pay to rent the track. He's just looking for some revenue . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    Not sure I follow the math -- where are you renting that you need to charge $300 x 60 = $18,000 to break even? I thought track rental for WSIR is a little over $4k for a weekend, a little over $5k for Buttonwillow? Seems like a lot leftover to cover insurance, cornerworkers, and fire/rescue/towing.

    I like concept one but for $300/car I would expect it to be 25-30 cars total, not 50-60. Essentially more of a weekend open test day. FWIW Speed District already does 50 car max at closer to the $200 mark.
    Places like NJMP or Pocono Raceway are $10k to $12k, plus at least $2k for insurance.

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