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Thread: What Brand Oil Do you Use? What is Best?

  1. #41
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    I am on my 5th engine..
    .
    I dont think your problem is related to the quality or type of oil you used.More so to a bad tunning/bad circumstances.If your engine is eperiencing oil starvation there is no oil that will save the engine without oil pressure.Except Motul possibly for a few short seconds
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Todd R View Post
    I don't think it matters much what automotive oil you use with that rebuild schedule...
    Just curious but can you run a 20 minute session hard without overheating/breaking? What is the weak point on the engine? Oil starvation, detonation, etc?
    #1, it pushes and consumes oil every session. So if it do any longer than 5 hotlaps, I am pretty sure I'll be a qt lower than Max. I have high crankcase pressure. It pushes into a custom catch can, which I am very proud that it works. It then drains to a 2L catch container, which i would drain from the bottom effortlessly every session. This won't help the oil starvation issue. Evos have oil starvation issues under high G sustained right handers longer than 5s+. Especially back to back right handers. So WSIR is problematic. The oil pick i[ is on the right side. So when cornering right, oil will slosh up and left away from pick up = low oil pressures = not happy bearings. I also have an upgraded oil cooler for better cooling (more fins and rows).

    OEM oil capacity is 4.7qts. I take about 8~.5qts all said an done now.

    I do have 3qt mechanical accusump, baffled, deeper oil pan, and Kiggly HLA to restrict flow of oil to head so as to keep most of oil in the pan as possible. As we know, higher rpms = more oil pump has to work, and if there is no oil to pump, we have a problem.

    Detonation was an issue before, but not anymore since i only do 1-2 hotlaps a session. And i run less boost now.

    Basically what i need now is a proper 3 or 4 stage Drysump. Problem solved. But its $3200 is what i was quoted.

    The smart thing to do is to park the damn thing, til I have $3500 to get it installed, but I am not smart...
    Last edited by Pure EvoIX; 05-12-2014 at 02:30 PM.
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    Do you know where the oil is going? If you are getting a lot of blow-by, it will contaminate your oil a heck of a lot faster and the ethanol in that E85 isn't doing you any favors either.

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrotacular View Post
    Do you know where the oil is going? If you are getting a lot of blow-by, it will contaminate your oil a heck of a lot faster and the ethanol in that E85 isn't doing you any favors either.
    read my post above. I re-edited a few times.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrotacular View Post
    For a factory engine, most owner's manuals have a temperature chart that dictates recommended viscosity. Otherwise it's your engine builders call. For me, if I'm not seeing the good-ole 10psi/1000rpm, >60psi @6,000rpm, at maximum oil temp (maximum ~280F) I'm not happy. I switched to a high pressure oil pump and an oil cooler (which in my mind is still inadequate, I'd like to see 260F max) to get there.
    What if your engine builder isn't sure either? On my 20B racecar the oil temp never exceeds 200*F due to the amount of cooling I have (good for rotary) and with the massive dry sump I have my oil pressure never budges off 120psi (or more) at high rpm. Using Redline 50wt race oil for now, but always curious how to find the right viscosity without spinning a bearing and taking out a very expensive e-shaft in the process.

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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    What if your engine builder isn't sure either? On my 20B racecar the oil temp never exceeds 200*F due to the amount of cooling I have (good for rotary) and with the massive dry sump I have my oil pressure never budges off 120psi (or more) at high rpm. Using Redline 50wt race oil for now, but always curious how to find the right viscosity without spinning a bearing and taking out a very expensive e-shaft in the process.
    The corvette LS factory engines use 30 weight oil. So that's what I have been using for 7 years. As you know I raced my original stock LS6 engine all through the last 7 years with no issues and no rebuilds. The key is continuous oil pressure and keeping the oil from over heating. I had a dry sump for half of those years. If my engine suffered from low pressure, I would prefer to upgrade the pump rather than run a higher viscosity oil. I would start by looking at what Mazda required for the rotaries from the factory and work from there. But based on your high pressure and low temps, I don't see why you would want a 50 weight oil. Then again, I don't know anything about rotaries or their oiling system.

    My new ls6 has a shimmed factory oil pump, so I'm seeing 80+psi oil pressure at high rpm. My temps are staying in the 230 range. I highly recommend the scavenge only dry sump system and my engine builder says he also prefers my system to the full 4 stage system with an external pressure pump. First of all, there's nothing wrong with the factory oil pump in an LS engine and they basically never fail. They are driven off the crank. Secondly, the scavenge only dry sump uses a tensioner belt system identical to the stock A/C belt so it never falls off. It's a very simple and reliable setup from ARE in Sacramento.
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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post

    Detonation was an issue before, but not anymore since i only do 1-2 hotlaps a session. And i run less boost now.

    Basically what i need now is a proper 3 or 4 stage Drysump. Problem solved. But its $3200 is what i was quoted.

    The smart thing to do is to park the damn thing, til I have $3500 to get it installed, but I am not smart...
    You would really benefit from a dry sump system. Not only will it provide constant oil pressure, but it will also suck a vacuum on the crankcase. This increases power and eliminates oil filling catch cans. Win/win/win.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    read my post above. I re-edited a few times.
    Like I said blow-by will definitely accelerate your oil contamination rate, a catch can doesn't separate out the contaminated oil.
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  9. #49
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    The corvette LS factory engines use 30 weight oil. So that's what I have been using for 7 years. As you know I raced my original stock LS6 engine all through the last 7 years with no issues and no rebuilds. The key is continuous oil pressure and keeping the oil from over heating. I had a dry sump for half of those years. If my engine suffered from low pressure, I would prefer to upgrade the pump rather than run a higher viscosity oil. I would start by looking at what Mazda required for the rotaries from the factory and work from there. But based on your high pressure and low temps, I don't see why you would want a 50 weight oil. Then again, I don't know anything about rotaries or their oiling system.

    My new ls6 has a shimmed factory oil pump, so I'm seeing 80+psi oil pressure at high rpm. My temps are staying in the 230 range. I highly recommend the scavenge only dry sump system and my engine builder says he also prefers my system to the full 4 stage system with an external pressure pump. First of all, there's nothing wrong with the factory oil pump in an LS engine and they basically never fail. They are driven off the crank. Secondly, the scavenge only dry sump uses a tensioner belt system identical to the stock A/C belt so it never falls off. It's a very simple and reliable setup from ARE in Sacramento.
    in case of a Vette, I would go whatever LeMan Vette team uses.....must be working....
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    in case of a Vette, I would go whatever LeMan Vette team uses.....must be working....
    Speaking of that, I am told that the GrandAm RX8's ran on Castrol GTX 20w50 conventional oil. Some of the teams are claiming to have gone 60+ races without needing to rebuild, and when they did finally tear the engine down it could have gone another 60 more.

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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Speaking of that, I am told that the GrandAm RX8's ran on Castrol GTX 20w50 conventional oil. Some of the teams are claiming to have gone 60+ races without needing to rebuild, and when they did finally tear the engine down it could have gone another 60 more.
    Well there you go. I think so much of it just boils down to the quality of the engine build and maintaining good oil pressure and temps and changing oil regularly. Like others have said, it probably doesn't make much difference what oil you use if those conditions are all met.

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    I agree wtih redtopz. So maintaining high oil pressure is my weakness. That should be addressed aka 3 stage Drysump aka $3200. AKA until then, take wsir easy especially T8 and T9. Oh yea, can't forget Riverside, onramp, and sweeper at BRP.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    I agree wtih redtopz. So maintaining high oil pressure is my weakness. That should be addressed aka 3 stage Drysump aka $3200. AKA until then, take wsir easy especially T8 and T9. Oh yea, can't forget Riverside, onramp, and sweeper at BRP.
    Well, what's the definition of insanity? Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? It looks like what you are doing is not working so you should fix it. I bet you will look back and say it was the best $3200 you spent on the car. A F/I engine exacerbates crankcase pressure issues. Pulling a vacuum on the crankcase will really help. Talk to Gary at ARE about the right setup for your engine. Are there guys racing Evo's that are successfully using dry sump systems?

    Looking at your engine history I wonder why you had one engine last 2.5 years and the others only last months. Were you driving less aggressively or was the engine built differently?
    Last edited by redtopz; 05-12-2014 at 03:49 PM.
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    Actually i just remembered something. I am going to invest in an AEM Infinity. I will have all the sensors to monitor/log pressures/temps vs cornering Gs. So that will tell me ALOT of information. I can even set it up so it gives me all sorts of low oil pressure warnings and either throw a light/cut power/timing...just something to let me know of low oil pressure if i keep cornering like i am, so i can back off.
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    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    in case of a Vette, I would go whatever LeMan Vette team uses.....must be working....
    Speaking of which, I wonder if my vette could make it through the 25 hours of T-hill? I bet it could last the whole race. All I would need is a big fuel cell and a lot of tires.

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    Well, what's the definition of insanity? Trying the same thing over and over again and expecting different results? It looks like what you are doing is not working so you should fix it. I bet you will look back and say it was the best $3200 you spent on the car. A F/I engine exacerbates crankcase pressure issues. Pulling a vacuum on the crankcase will really help. Talk to Gary at ARE about the right setup for your engine. Are there guys racing Evo's that are successfully using dry sump systems?

    Looking at your engine history I wonder why you had one engine last 2.5 years and the others only last months. Were you driving less aggressively or was the engine built differently?
    I had less power back then, didnt drive as hard as right now, and it was built alot tighter than my current one. I was not consuming that much oil at all if that. Maybe after 1000mi, it would need half a qt. It also definitely had less crankcase pressure. I also had a quicker spooling turbo/smaller turbo. I didn't have much of a choice on how tight of loose the past few motors were. I was just given it.

    I only know of a handful that have a drysump, but they haven't been driving hard or racing as frequently as me. So i don't know if it works or has been tested on local tracks.

    There are also some evos who don't have a drysump and go fast without blowing up, but they are on stock motor. So again back to loose motor vs tighter motor. But a loose or tighter motor still has no bearing on low oil pressure during sustained high right hander Gs.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
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    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Another cheaper solution...drive on **** tires. 220tw+
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
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    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
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    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

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  18. #58
    Senior Member Todd R's Avatar
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    You will pick up power and gain reliability with a dry sump. No more contamination of your intake charge either which should help with detonation. Tracking an FI car will keep you busy.

    Thanks again Porsche for giving me an "integrated dry sump" (their term) also know as an oil pan anywhere else....
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    Speaking of which, I wonder if my vette could make it through the 25 hours of T-hill? I bet it could last the whole race. All I would need is a big fuel cell and a lot of tires.
    You start getting any wild ideas let me know, I'll crew for you.
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    enjoys driving fast Jack Olsen's Avatar
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    Don't modern Vettes come stock with a dry sump system?

    Is there any kind of baffled pan or Accusump-type system for the Evo?

    I've never learned about most of this, since the air-cooled 911s had (dual-pump, 12-quart) dry sump systems from the beginning. (Although the water-cooled ones have a less awesome compromise system, like Todd mentions.)

    And even without a pan at the bottom, I put in a pump with additional inlets at different corners of the case. But then, Zhong is faster than me. So I can't say I'm bragging. Just not blowing up.
    Last edited by Jack Olsen; 05-12-2014 at 04:48 PM.

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