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Thread: Uhhhh...William?

  1. #41
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    the car was in pristine condition. not a scratch on any of the wheels in 3 years. in less than 24 hours, I bent a wheel, and scratched another
    Wow...take it easy out there William...don't push it too far!
    Last edited by 600RR_Rocket; 12-14-2008 at 06:05 PM.

  2. #42

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    congrats to William's CCW record, 1'30.0

  3. #43
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    Sweet! Is that an NFR? Welcome to the S2000 family!!!
    "NFR" = "Not For Resale" ?

    Quote Originally Posted by R Motorsports View Post
    ^^^ Take it easy buddy. You just got the car, no need to break any records.
    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    Wow...take it easy out there William...don't push it too far!
    no, can't do that. I knew Jaku slept well yesterday knowing that I was slower by 2 seconds CW and all the S2K owners are laughing their ass off

    I did a 1:30.1 today CCW. not what I hoped, but heck, S2000 is really difficult to drive at the limit (compare to Miata)

    yes, Jaku. I did leave spare tire and tools in the trunk. even left in the floor mats and owner's manuals in the car.

    although I did install Hawk Plus brake pads last night. when I ran my 1:30.1 today, I wasn't "technically" running Hawk pads I'll explain:

    I ran original stock pads yesterday (CW), faded the brakes badly, had a couple of moments. so I bought a set of used Hawk + pads off another S2K. installed front Hawk late afternoon yesterday.

    today it is CCW, much harder on brakes. front straight, it is about 5th gear (about 107MPH) down to 2nd gear (30MPH ?) at the Skidpad. At the back straight, it is also 5th gear down to 2nd gear at the bowl.

    after 2nd session. my rear stock Honda pad completely disintegrated. metal to metal !! when I bought the car 2 days ago, it had 70% pads left.

    so I installed rear Hawk + pads.

    after 4th session. my front Hawk + pads (had 60% left) completely disintegrated. metal to metal . no pads left, so I just ran like this for 2 more sessions. so "technically" I wasn't running Hawk pads

    called Emilio and ordered a set of XP12/10 for next weekend.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-15-2008 at 02:13 AM.
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  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I did a 1:30.1 today CCW. not what I hoped, but heck, S2000 is really difficult to drive at the limit (compare to Miata)

    yes, Jaku. I did leave spare tire and tools in the trunk. even left in the floor mats and owner's manuals in the car.

    although I did install Hawk Plus brake pads last night. when I ran my 1:30.1, I wasn't running Hawk pads I'll explain:

    I ran original stock pads yesterday (CW), faded the brakes badly, had a couple of moments. so I bought a set of used Hawk + pads off another S2K. installed front Hawk late afternoon yesterday.

    today it is CCW, much harder on brakes. front straight, it is about 5th gear (about 107MPH) down to 2nd gear (30MPH ?) at the Skidpad. At the back straight, it is also 5th gear down to 2nd gear at the bowl.

    after 2nd session. my rear stock Honda pad completely disintegrated. metal to metal !! when I bought the car 2 days ago, it had 70% pads left.

    so I installed rear Hawk + pads.

    after 4th session. my front Hawk + pads (had 60% left) completely disintegrated. metal to metal

    called Emilio and ordered a set of XP12/10 for next weekend.
    now you see what i mean?! you don't need brake to run 1'30, you run faster without pads!!

    holy shxt, you have a strong motor, i only hit 102mph before skipad!!

    skidpad is a 40mph turn, and you probably release the brake between 45~50mph

    btw, shouldn't you update your sig?

  5. #45
    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    Congratulations on a very fast laptime William!
    Do you understand?

  6. #46
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    "NFR" = "Not For Resale" ?

    no, can't do that. I knew Jaku slept well yesterday knowing that I was slower by 2 seconds CW and all the S2K owners are laughing their ass off

    I did a 1:30.1 today CCW. not what I hoped, but heck, S2000 is really difficult to drive at the limit (compare to Miata)

    yes, Jaku. I did leave spare tire and tools in the trunk. even left in the floor mats and owner's manuals in the car.
    NFR = New Formula Red. Come on William, get with the S2K lingo!

    I think it's official. William holds the stock S2000 SOW CCW record. Unless Jaku is going to pipe up about the Hawks disqualifying him as "bone stock" or "factory stock" or "showroom stock" or other "stockish" terminology.

    William, when I first tracked my "Bone/Factory/Showroom" S2000, I found the brakes were also the weakest points. I've seen plenty of car magazines observe the same.

    If I were you I'd run the XP12/10 your ordered on the track (although XP10/8 is the more popular combo) and swap back into stock pads for the street. Of course replace the brake fluid with either ATE Super Blue or Motul 600.

    I'd track the stock S2000 until I become really comfortable with the way it handles. Break the SOW CW record that Jaku is so proud of, and other stock S2000 track records before you start modding.

  7. #47
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    Break the SOW CW record that Jaku is so proud of, and other stock S2000 track records before you start modding.
    the truth is SOW is so much faster now. my time is not impressive at all.
    note my sig now.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaku View Post
    btw, shouldn't you update your sig?
    done.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-15-2008 at 12:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    the truth is SOW is so much faster now. my time is not impressive at all.
    If it's a record, it's a record. Don't be so self-effacing.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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  9. #49
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    the truth is SOW is so much faster now. my time is not impressive at all.
    "A record is a record." (I quote William from a previous thread)

    And there's no proof that it's faster until you set a new one.

  10. #50
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post

    done.
    Umm...if you're gonna list the color of your S2K, why not the color of your Miata, WRX, and Spyder?
    Last edited by 600RR_Rocket; 12-15-2008 at 12:35 PM.

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    Senior Member desertosprey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    the truth is SOW is so much faster now. my time is not impressive at all.

    Modest Johnny!

  12. #52
    FIA WTCC/Formula D Driver MiataCharles_Hong_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by desertosprey View Post
    Modest Johnny!
    I like your style William! But hey, its your first time driving a stock S2000, get more seat time and you will break the 30 barrier for sure!! Good job man

  13. #53
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    LESS brake pedal pressure William!

  14. #54
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Hey William, probably a stupid question, but you did turn the VSA off right???

    I've seen people come back from a session with their brakes smoking and pads shot to hell, and I'll ask them the same question. Many times I'll hear, "Uh, I don't think so?"

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    I think it's official. William holds the stock S2000 SOW CCW record. Unless Jaku is going to pipe up about the Hawks disqualifying him as "bone stock" or "factory stock" or "showroom stock" or other "stockish" terminology.
    he has it cos i don't think upgraded pads help fastest laptime that usually happens before brake fade, plus he is on back plates, not pads!

    Break the SOW CW record that Jaku is so proud of, and other stock S2000 track records before you start modding.
    i'm never proud of that at all!

    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    Hey William, probably a stupid question, but you did turn the VSA off right???

    I've seen people come back from a session with their brakes smoking and pads shot to hell, and I'll ask them the same question. Many times I'll hear, "Uh, I don't think so?"
    William has MY05, no stupid VSA
    Last edited by Jaku; 12-15-2008 at 02:30 PM.

  16. #56
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    LESS brake pedal pressure William!
    excuse meeeeeee !!! I've seen you drive my car, you are no easier on brakes than I am

    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    Hey William, probably a stupid question, but you did turn the VSA off right???
    stop using S2K lingo I don't understand !!

    just ordered 2 sets of brake rotors, and XP12/10. will build myself a brake duct.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-15-2008 at 02:40 PM.
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  17. #57
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post


    stop using S2K lingo I don't understand !!

    just ordered 2 sets of brake rotors, and XP12/10. will build myself a brake duct.
    VSA = Vehicle Stability Assist (fancy Honda term for traction control).

    Good you have a '05 model. The last of the "pure" S2000's without that drive-by-wire crap.

    Dunno if the order for the pads have already been placed, but the XP10/8 combo is far more popular among the S2K track community. Just my $0.02...

    Also, let me know about your brake duct setup. This is a project I am considering for next year. Let's do the build together! Here's a setup that Chris (BlkblkS2K) did on his car:

    http://www.s2ki.com/forums/index.php...ost&p=14889710

    BTW, you may want to read the entire thread. It is entitled, "Track Days Destroy My Brakes!"

  18. #58
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    Dunno if the order for the pads have already been placed, but the XP10/8 combo is far more popular among the S2K track community. Just my $0.02...

    Also, let me know about your brake duct setup. This is a project I am considering for next year. Let's do the build together! Here's a setup that Chris (BlkblkS2K) did on his car:
    XP10/8 is for wimps. like Jaku who brakes like a grandma he doesn't use real man's brake pads. Leisure_Suit is my hero, and don't brake pussy footed.

    I use XP12/10 on my Miata, that weighs 400LB less and makes 1/2 the HP. It also has brake duct !! I've built over 4 sets of brake ducts, it should be easy !!
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    excuse meeeeeee !!! I've seen you drive my car, you are no easier on brakes than I am
    Their is a point where your braking system (tire's grip, pad friction coefficient-fade) is at its maximum.

    Often (including your Miata) the limit is not always in the tires grip (lockup) but rather the fade/deceleration rate of another limiting factor. Your car experiences this at higher speeds and can lock up a tire at lower speeds.

    Whether it's a light fade or ABS, any additional pedal pressure past the limit (fade or digging into the abs) will not cause the car to decelerate any quicker, but will greatly increase the brake pad wear. "Fade" for this definition isn't necessarily the pedal going to the floor and you not being able to stop, but rather your brake pads don't have enough bite to cause the tire to be the limiting factor.

    I wasn't there in your car with you, but I have seen many drivers in various cars use way too much pedal pressure going into the skidpad braking zone (CCW) riding the ABS or this 'light fade'. It's easy to do and I was commenting to be aware of not shoving your foot through the floor of the car.

    If your braking system is at its limit, don't add any additional pedal pressure. Just like if you are understeering, any additional steering input into the corner will not improve your front grip or make you turn better (unlike a video game).

    0.02


    Leisure-Suit Louie is the man. He just sticks his bare feet through the floor-board Barny Rubble-style to slow the car down. I'm still trying to learn
    Last edited by Stuntman; 12-15-2008 at 06:15 PM.

  20. #60
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    good explanation, makes a lot of sense, Billy.

    I was actually pretty good at not activating ABS, my Miata don't have ABS, so I've always tried hard not to flat spot my tires.

    but I believe I do drive with a "light fade" as you are referring to.
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