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Thread: Type-R at BW13, 2:03 and limp mode

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Default Type-R at BW13, 2:03 and limp mode

    Evasive just ran a Type-R around BW13. pretty fast, but goes into limp mode after 1 lap.....
    in the description: "The car was quick out of the box, however as the day got hotter we started to experience overheating and heat soak issues. It got so bad to the point where we couldn't even finish 1 lap'

    wait for Type-RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRR ?

    class action lawsuit ? (C7 z06 lawyer must be excited)

    btw, internet talks about $20k markup. I just met someone who got one for $2k over.

    Last edited by bellwilliam; 08-11-2017 at 12:25 PM.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    What a joke.

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    In Honda's defense, I doubt their Nurburging or Japanese track testing during the R&D were comparable to the ambient temps seen at Buttonwillow in July/August.
    1:46.3X @ BRP CW13 - 11/12/15 (400 whp, TD )
    1:26.82 @ WSIR - 10/12/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:22.7X @ SOW CW - 7/31/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:21.6X @ SOW CCW - 7/30/14 (400whp, Nt01)
    2:00.01 @ CVR CW - 9/28/13 (350whp, RS3)
    1:48.22 @ ACS - 11/23/13 (400whp, RS3)

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns_EvoIXSE View Post
    In Honda's defense, I doubt their Nurburging or Japanese track testing during the R&D were comparable to the ambient temps seen at Buttonwillow in July/August.
    Actually. Mike of Evasive said this wasn't even a hot day
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    I think it's pretty neutral, pretty impressed.
    I won't worry about overheating issue since the price is 35K. An oil cooler and better radiator would solve the problem.
    Personally I'm impressed by the high speed section stability, where it puts down power quite well. That's unusual for a 280whp fwd with stock continental tire.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 08-11-2017 at 01:22 PM.
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    I think anything with a turbo is going to have issues. This is the new normal. It's like the cr@p we had in the 70's when cats became required. Turbo is the way manufacturers meet mandates for smaller displacements, increased MPG and keeping up consumer demand for horsepower and torque. The aftermarket will fix it. They always do. Tracking well always cost money. The C7Z06 vette problems are non-existent and simply solved with LG's cooler package less than the cost of a set of race tires. A diy guy could even cobble together a cheap ghetto version for 1/2 the cost. The money that would have been spent making more hp and torque from natrurally aspirated motor is now put into cooler packages with easy cheap increases in turbo horsepower. Everything is a compromise.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Actually. Mike of Evasive said this wasn't even a hot day
    That's very subjective. He looks pretty clammy/sweaty in every clip of him, even on what appears to be the drive home lol.

    Not that I really care one way or the other.
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    1:46.3X @ BRP CW13 - 11/12/15 (400 whp, TD )
    1:26.82 @ WSIR - 10/12/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:22.7X @ SOW CW - 7/31/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:21.6X @ SOW CCW - 7/30/14 (400whp, Nt01)
    2:00.01 @ CVR CW - 9/28/13 (350whp, RS3)
    1:48.22 @ ACS - 11/23/13 (400whp, RS3)

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jqsti2015 View Post
    I think it's pretty neutral, pretty impressed.
    I won't worry about overheating issue since the price is 35K. An oil cooler and better radiator would solve the problem.
    Personally I'm impressed by the high speed section stability, where it puts down power quite well. That's unusual for a 280whp fwd with stock continental tire.
    Well, you can put 100sq/ft oil cooler or intercooler(even if we forget the space requirements for extra coolers), but if dont have enough airflow thru it it is just ballast. If you look at the nose of this RRRRRRRRRRRR do you think you will be able to double the airflow? I would say it would be unlikely to add substantial airflow without very extensive modifications.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    I think anything with a turbo is going to have issues. This is the new norm.
    On this point we agree First mass manufactured turbo car of the new era was the 335i, and it started to overheat just after a few laps in a stock form. I would say if you need turbo car for the track you need a front end modified for a monstrous airflow. In my E30 turbo i was achieving intake air temps under the ambient (with W/M injection), but the IC was robbing flow from the radiator. Lesson learned, next project will be built around cooling.

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    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
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    The same happened to the new Type R that came to the CMS Roval event I did a couple of weeks ago. The owner and passenger said the warning lights lit off like a Christmas tree before they finished the first lap. It wasn't terribly hot that day either. Mid 80s, cooled off as the day went on.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    do you think you will be able to double the airflow? I would say it would be unlikely to add substantial airflow without very extensive modifications.
    I think this is true of anything with a turbo we want to put on track. And...the aero drag is going to skyrocket!
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    I think this is true of anything with a turbo we want to put on track. And...the aero drag is going to skyrocket!
    Well, the good thing with the turbo is that you just turn up the boost a bit to offset the drag On a more serious note, the E85 is a tremendous help to the combustion chamber/piston cooling and overall cooling as it lowers the IAT by 70-100F.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    What cracks me up is there are a few ultra hard core Honda fans paying for the Civic Type R what I paid for my Shelby GT350. One of these is a super fast, track ready car. The other is front wheel drive.
    Last edited by emilio700; 08-11-2017 at 08:22 PM.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Are all those front vents functional ?
    I do know those rear vents are all fake.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    To be fair. It is a decent track car at 34k msrp. Which I am sure it will be under msrp in few months
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    One of these is a super fast, track ready car. The other is front wheel drive.
    Well to be fair the GT350 had its growing pains and overheating too and it was Naturally aspirated which is easier to keep cool than boosted. So I would not be throwing stones in a glass house. The closest car to leave the factory track ready is a street porsche GT3 but even it has had development since 1999 to get here.
    deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2<\/title><path d="M10,3.5l3-3,3,3Z" style="fill:%23fff;stroke:%23fff"/><path d="M0,3.5H10l3-3,3,3H26" style="fill:none;stroke:%231b3a4d"/><\/svg>')}.f_branding_on.blog-group-deadspin .editor-inner.post-content .pu
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Are all those front vents functional ?
    I do know those rear vents are all fake.
    No they are not. Fake.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jqsti2015 View Post
    No they are not. Fake.
    That would mean plenty of place to add real vents for coolers.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Well to be fair the GT350 had its growing pains and overheating too and it was Naturally aspirated which is easier to keep cool than boosted. So I would not be throwing stones in a glass house. The closest car to leave the factory track ready is a street porsche GT3 but even it has had development since 1999 to get here.
    deadspin-quote-carrot-aligned-w-bgr-2<\/title><path d="M10,3.5l3-3,3,3Z" style="fill:%23fff;stroke:%23fff"/><path d="M0,3.5H10l3-3,3,3H26" style="fill:none;stroke:%231b3a4d"/><\/svg>')}.f_branding_on.blog-group-deadspin .editor-inner.post-content .pu
    Japanese manufactures used to love to build "bang-for-buck-spec track car" but they don't make it anymore and they don't sell them here.
    example of FD2R: Super light weight+5.06 final drive+close ratio+ reliable engine+6K factory spring rate.
    And it won't overheat just like S2000.

    Another example: STI spec c series. Spec c (2000-2011) is not limited production and everyone can order one from dealer with 3000USD over base model. It's not that spec c is significantly faster because it emphasizs on reliability and cooling:factory air-to-oil oil cooler, intercooler cooler....and stiffer bushing, stronger engine, thinner window etc.

    Personally I prefer these cars since price is much much lower than a 130K GT3 but none of them could be bought here.
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 08-11-2017 at 10:57 PM.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    I think anything with a turbo is going to have issues. This is the new normal. It's like the cr@p we had in the 70's when cats became required. Turbo is the way manufacturers meet mandates for smaller displacements, increased MPG and keeping up consumer demand for horsepower and torque. The aftermarket will fix it. They always do. Tracking well always cost money. The C7Z06 vette problems are non-existent and simply solved with LG's cooler package less than the cost of a set of race tires. A diy guy could even cobble together a cheap ghetto version for 1/2 the cost. The money that would have been spent making more hp and torque from natrurally aspirated motor is now put into cooler packages with easy cheap increases in turbo horsepower. Everything is a compromise.
    The aftermarket can always fix things, but if you're going to market a car as a "track special" than make the damn thing track worthy.
    It's not about the ability to fix the problem or the cost, it's about the fact that there is a problem where there shouldn't be.

    FWIW, I agree with William's note that for the 34K MSRP this car is good, and knowing that the cooling issues will be resolved makes this car rather appealing for many (dealer markup aside).
    Heck, I wouldn't mind one as a DD.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 08-12-2017 at 08:47 AM.
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    The GT350 was track ready from day one. A first year recall for a bad oil line fitting not withstanding. The Track Pack was the highly publicized, and optional cooling package for those that would take their cars to the track. Some buyers cheaped out by deleting the Track Pack then suing Ford because their cars overheated.. only on the track
    At no point was Ford disingenuous. The GT350 w/o Track Pack did what every other performance car did/does. It went really fast, handled great for a few laps then got too hot. That folks were too cheap/dumb to put 22 together and buy the Track Pack is not Ford's fault. So Ford made the Track Pack standard. Now, if you want a GT350 and do not plan to track it, you get to pay another $7500 to get equipment you don't need.
    That is not a weakness of the design. That is Ford, perhaps naively assuming buyers would appreciate being given the choice while being astute enough to make the right one.

    The Civic Type R does not belong in the same category as a car that is peppered with fully functional ducting and heat exchangers. It is instead, the Pinnacle of Rice.

    And its ugly too.
    Last edited by emilio700; 08-15-2017 at 10:04 AM.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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