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Thread: Trade Z4M for corvette

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Default Trade Z4M for corvette??

    So I have been seeing some pretty nice deal on Corvettes lately and I'm tempted to trade in the BMW Z4m coupe for a Base C6 Corvette. Not a ZO6.

    I like the Z4M but there is no aftermarket support and the car is discontinued now.

    Corvette guys chime in.

    How is the base corvette on the track? overheating? stock brakes? Oil starvation (the 6.2L motor has a wet sump).

    Is the optional performance package: Includes extra cooling, specific shock absorbers, larger brakes with cross-drilled rotors and specific tires Stiffer Springs, Stiffer Stabilizer Bars, Worth it or go aftermarket?


    I prefer the look and rarity of the Z4M on the street but the corvette is I think a much better track car.

    Also I'm a little dude. I'll have to make sure I can actually see over the dash in the C6.

    I'm going to drive a C6 this week and think more about it. Keep the Z4M or C6???
    Last edited by Silversprint; 10-28-2008 at 09:51 AM.

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    Senior Member julian's Avatar
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    i say keep the m coupe. i drove my friend's c6 z51 at street speeds and didn't like how disconnected it felt. fast for sure but not sure how satisfying it'd be for me.

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    Jeanette used to have a C5 Z06 that she tracked, and she was VERY fast, beating all the boys at track days. After she totalled it at Laguna Seca, she bought a Z4M, which she never liked on track (I think she got rid of it).
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    I had a regular C6 as a DD for a while. It seemed to handle nicely and had good steering response, but I never did take it on the track. If you do get it, IMMEDIATELY upgrade the seats...jesus those things are uncomfortable, I couldn't even drive the car longer than 30 minutes without my back killing me.

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    FIA WTCC/Formula D Driver MiataCharles_Hong_Kong's Avatar
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    M Coupe for sure! I just drifted one in Balcony last friday, drives like a dream!

    [YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8_vFOVh_njs[/YOUTUBE]

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    The Corvette is a durable track car and an effective track weapon, especially if you have auxillary oil coolers and the bigger radiator.

    My race car has a larger radiator, auxillary oil coolers for the engine, transmission and differential. I have raced that car several times in the afternoon at both Buttonwillow and WSIR when temperatures were exceeding 110 degrees... so hot at one race that when we came in two drivers needed medical attention. One collapsed and the other was disoriented. My car ran great.

    Stock Corvettes are fantastic track weapon up until the temperatures reach the mid 90's. At that point they are usually good for the first to or three sessions of the day, but if you run hard full sessions, by afternoon you will usually start experiencing high engine water or oil temps. You might even kick off a hot tranny or diff warning. They just don't let go of enough heat between sessions when it is hot and the asphalt hotter. With my daily driver I actually poured water on the paddock asphalt under the car. Cooling off the asphalt and getting humid swamp cooler effect seemed to help the car the next session. I would always run that car hard the full session and she did great for four years until I got rid of her in April.

    Other things to be prepared for on a Corvette that is tracked frequently:
    1. They are fast and heavy compared to some cars. That means front brake pads every few track days. They can be eaten up on some configs in 3-4 track days if you are running race rubber and you are fast. Other tracks like WSIR they can last 12+ days. The rears last about twice as long.
    2. Tires can also wear faster then most other cars due to the speed and weight.
    3. Rotors crack on occassion. They last about as long as pads. Buy them from NAPA for about $35 each. They work fine.
    4. I don't know about the C6, but I can crack hubs on my C5 and they need replacement about twice per year. Tracks with curbing like BW is harder on them, especially when racing I just fly through the esses sometime going almost straight over them. They cost about $180 each. Keep in mind I have 20+ races on my car this year and about that many track days.
    5. I second the idea of a race seat and harness. If you put race rubber and an aggressive alignment on the car, they stick real good. That means you will be sliding around the seat instead of focusing on driving fast. Even inexpensive Corbeaus for $220 will work pretty good.
    6. The new LS3 power plant in the 2008 is wickedly torquey, but it has an oil starvation problem on high G corners with sticky tires on. Several guys have lost that engine as a result. The 2008 has a much nicer steering rack than previous generations. I wish I could use that one....

    I am sure there a few other things, but that is some of the most salient info.

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    is it no aftermarket support or no cheap aftermarket suport?

    i think base C6 is just as fast as Z4M, with some mods Z4M can possibly catch up a stock Z06

    if you can afford a new Z4M, you should get an used Z06 at least

    if you care about aftermarket support why not JDM

    oh wait, why not a Lotus, they are going cheap now!!

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaku View Post
    is it no aftermarket support or no cheap aftermarket suport?

    i think base C6 is just as fast as Z4M, with some mods Z4M can possibly catch up a stock Z06

    if you can afford a new Z4M, you should get an used Z06 at least

    if you care about aftermarket support why not JDM

    oh wait, why not a Lotus, they are going cheap now!!


    If you throw DOT R tires and race pads on a stock C6 and then tweak the alignment, I can turn 1:22.xxx at SoWS and under 1:30 at WSIR.


    Oli

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaku View Post
    is it no aftermarket support or no cheap aftermarket suport?

    i think base C6 is just as fast as Z4M, with some mods Z4M can possibly catch up a stock Z06

    if you can afford a new Z4M, you should get an used Z06 at least

    if you care about aftermarket support why not JDM

    oh wait, why not a Lotus, they are going cheap now!!
    I already have a MR2 spyder race car that is 2zz and getting turbo'd. With 300hp and 2000lbs it will do under 1:25 at sow. It can do 1:26-28 with 2100/190hp NA now. This is as close to an Elise as you can get and still have a cheap disposable car that I can race wheel-to-wheel next year with the Alfa club.

    But I need something to just drive to HPDEs when I don't feel like trailering the MR2.

    I don't think a Z4M can come close to a Z06 without boost. The Z4M is 3200lbs/333hp. It's a heavy car. I think 2800 would be the lightest you can get and still be streetable. The C6 is 3200lb/430hp stock. The Z06 is 500hp.

    A base 2008 C6 is can be found for low 40s now. That's way cheaper than an exige and way more comfortable/faster than a base stock elise.

    I"m not going to pay$50-60K for a used Z06. I paid $47K out the door for the Z4M last year. I want to stay in the $40s for any new car.
    Last edited by Silversprint; 10-28-2008 at 12:29 PM.

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    Or, just get a cheap pickup and trailer, and then get something like an Enterprise Sports Racer. 1300 pounds and 170hp with sequential shifting. I don't know what it'd do at Buttonwillow, but I know it's a 1:30 car at Laguna Seca and a 1:55 at Thunderhill



    Steve

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    Senior Member julian's Avatar
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    hey silversprint, i showed my friend with the c6 this thread and he said you can test drive his car if he can test drive your z4m (assuming the dealer gives you crap about going WOT or whatever).

    he's been curious about the z4m also.

    2007 c6 z51

    he just installed a seat and i think he has the z06 exhaust, but other than that everything is stock including tires.

    he's in torrance. lemme know if you're interested.

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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian View Post
    hey silversprint, i showed my friend with the c6 this thread and he said you can test drive his car if he can test drive your z4m (assuming the dealer gives you crap about going WOT or whatever).

    he's been curious about the z4m also.

    2007 c6 z51

    he just installed a seat and i think he has the z06 exhaust, but other than that everything is stock including tires.

    he's in torrance. lemme know if you're interested.
    Thanks. I'll keep that in mind. But I do want to drive a 2008 Z51 since there are some differences. I'll know the first time I drive it, if its a car for me.

    This was car and drivers take on the 2008 C6 Z51.
    With a herd of 15 cars, 11 more than the LL2 group in our 2007 derby, this category was by far the biggest, ranging from predictably fast rides such as the Corvette Z51, a big favorite last year, to some that we expected to sizzle but didn’t: A particular disappointment was the Subaru WRX STI.

    Although the Z06 is the more serious track car, a base Corvette with the slightly stiffer Z51 suspension package will satisfy all but the most demanding weekend warriors and save them as much as $23,000 in the process. The only dynamic trait that drew even faintly negative mention last year—slightly numb steering—was improved for the 2008 model year, as was the shifting, and 436 horsepower from the LS3 V-8 (versus 400 for the ’07 Vette) doesn’t hurt, either.

    So we weren’t too surprised when the current car trimmed 2.4 seconds off the best time posted by its predecessor. Some may note that the 2007 Corvette was third fastest overall, regardless of class, whereas the ’08 car was fifth. But as noted earlier, there were some very quick cars at this Lightning Lap.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprint View Post
    But I need something to just drive to HPDEs when I don't feel like trailering the MR2.

    I don't think a Z4M can come close to a Z06 without boost. The Z4M is 3200lbs/333hp. It's a heavy car. I think 2800 would be the lightest you can get and still be streetable. The C6 is 3200lb/430hp stock. The Z06 is 500hp.

    A base 2008 C6 is can be found for low 40s now. That's way cheaper than an exige and way more comfortable/faster than a base stock elise.
    i can't prove you wrong since i don't have a Z4M, you will be the one that proves how fast stock C6 is versus Manly's nearly stock Elise, Maxrev's mild tuned S2000 or my friend's mild tuned Z4M, are you going to be the 1st corvette owner that is dare to use street tires on track?

    even with Leisure Suit Louie's real man driving skill, he only clocked 2'04 at Roval on his stock C6, that's about 10s to catch Manly on street tires

    2008/07/19 - 2008/07/20 Auto Club Speedway Roval - Redline Time Attack

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    If you throw DOT R tires and race pads on a stock C6 and then tweak the alignment, I can turn 1:22.xxx at SoWS and under 1:30 at WSIR.
    Oli
    really ? isn't ur car turning 1:20s or 1:21s at SOW ? how can a stock C6 be almost as fast as u are ?
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    Professor Chaos thefrush's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    really ? isn't ur car turning 1:20s or 1:21s at SOW ? how can a stock C6 be almost as fast as u are ?
    Similar HP, and Oli's car isn't that heavily modified?
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    Senior Member vetteguy2005's Avatar
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    Default Corvette FTW

    I have a 2005 C6 and with a few modifications I am extremely pleased with the way my car performs.

    Oli is right about the heating problems, for $1,000 you can get a double core radiator and an oil and trans cooler and you are good to go.

    I suggest Pfadt suspension parts rather than the Z51 package. A lot more adjustment and control of the suspension.

    I have shocks and sway bars that adjust easily and quickly and work very well.

    My only complaint is tire and wheel fitment is a little restrictive for track days.
    The car really needs a bigger front tire to avoid pushing on tight corners. I have 0 problems with oversteer.

    The car is fast and rides like a cadillac compared to other track cars I have ridden in, solid and smooth.

    There is nothing more fun than the torque and power of a V8 kicking in coming out of a corner.
    Put a vararam cold air system and air filter on it and a cat back muffler system and you can get to near Z06 power for a lot less money.
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  17. #17
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    really ? isn't ur car turning 1:20s or 1:21s at SOW ? how can a stock C6 be almost as fast as u are ?
    Because my car is not very different from a stock C5. In fact, my car is heavier than a stock car because of the roll-cage, fire suppression system, auxillary oil coolers, two-way radio, etc.

    Look at my car sometime. It is basically stock except for somewhat stiffer springs that are allowed, Penske single adjustables, race brake pads and DOT-R rubber. Even my air filter is GM part numbered.

    Oli

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    Thats a tough call. The Z4M is an awesome car, but I think the C6 would make a better track car. Get rid of the archaic (but functional/works) transversely mounted leaf springs with some KW V3 coilovers, replace the seats like others have mentioned, and get some good tires, and you'll be good to go!

    To make the Z4M a little more tied down, predictable, and a better platform to have fun and learn as a driver, you'll probably have to play with a good set of coilovers, swaybars, and possibly some diff work, plus it wouldn't hurt to throw on an accusump on the M.

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    Jackalope Pimpslapper Leisure Suit Louie's Avatar
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    I'd skip the C6 and get a C5Z06.
    Please, no guesses or claims as to who I am in public.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leisure Suit Louie View Post
    I'd skip the C6 and get a C5Z06.
    Roughly the same hp... C5Z06 would probably be a little better suited for track duty, but J. Tyler really liked the C6 more than the C5 in terms of driving dynamics...

    Then you could get driving advice from coolsuit-burgoon!

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