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Thread: Time Attack, Race Cars, having cake and eating it too?

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    I wanna go fast! thepass's Avatar
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    Default Time Attack, Race Cars, having cake and eating it too?

    Moving to a full cage, nets, etc. this winter so that I can do some wheel to wheel this next season. However, I have been thinking that I'd like to participate in some of the bigger time attack events - maybe a Global Time Attack event here or there.

    As everyone knows, there's the ongoing conflict between road racers saying they'd love to do these events if only their wheel to wheel machines were allowed to play, and the time attack series don't want to open up pandora's box and let pro-level race cars crash the party, so they keep draconian rules like you have to keep a glove box...

    Basically, as I transition the car towards being fit for road racing, I don't want to close the door on the ability to have new adventures in time attack. Looking for input from those familiar with GTA/Superlap/Shift Sector on what I may need to make sure to do/not do in case there's something that might irrevocably exclude me from that stuff.

    I've read through the rules for GTA/Superlap, seems like the biggest thing is just the requirement for a dash and glove box. If that's the primary thing, I can just modify a dash and glove box to fit around the cage, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something because I can't be the first person to think about just taking a race car and putting a dash back in to be legal for time attack..

    I'd be in Limited class moving forward with any of those series, not Enthusiast or Street.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    So I'm guessing the green NB is going to be turned into a w2w car after all...

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    Member 5:04's Avatar
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    Most Time Attack cars are basically racecars with a couple of interior parts left in and limited tires. The big thing for a lot of racers is Lexan. Lexan moves a lot of racecars into higher classes where they're not competitive. The rest of the parts are pretty easy to install for TA and remove for W2W.

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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Redline rules are (generally) more restrictive than GTA, so I would build to those rules if you want to have freedom to run in both GTA and RTA. But be sure to look at both, since you can remove the glove box in RTA but not GTA.

    Modified/Limited class gives you a lot of leeway so it shouldn't be too hard. As noted previously, lexan is the big one -- your front windshield needs to remain glass for RTA (otherwise you're into Unlimited).

    If you keep glass front windshield, oem dash, and glovebox, then that's about all you need to worry about.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Lexan is not a huge issue to most Miata drivers since there's basically only one window, the weight savings are not significant.
    On a car like your 4 door M3, Amir, it's a big deal..
    Having to keep a full dash is a pain in the butt which also forces some compromises in cage design, it's not the end of the world, but not something to fall in love with either.

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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Having to keep a full dash is a pain in the butt which also forces some compromises in cage design, it's not the end of the world, but not something to fall in love with either.
    You can drill/cut holes in the dash to run the cage, so I would view it as cutting the dash to fit (rather than trying to fit the cage around the dash). Not sure if that changes anything on your end (I'm obviously not the cage builder ).
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Lexan is not a huge issue to most Miata drivers since there's basically only one window, the weight savings are not significant.
    Actually 11lbs, well above and forward of the CG. That is significant.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Yes, I am aware of that, my point was that in the grand scheme of things if one really wanted to run time attack with a Miata, not having the ability to replace the windshield with Lexan should be pretty low down the list of reasons why you wouldn't do it.
    And, compare that to a 4 door which has 4 windows that could be potentially replaced with Lexan, three of which can be made very thin, the potential weight saving is significantly higher.

    At any rate, there are a lot more problems with the time attack rulebooks as I see it, forget Lexan.
    It's a form of motorsports that rewards disregarding personal safety and encourages you to do things that no form of proper racing considers a good practice, and THAT is the problem.

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    Senior Member VagaXt's Avatar
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    Hmm... curiousier and curiouser... makes me want to throw my original turbo engine back in Miller and put a glass windshield back on for GTA/RTA...

    But to OP, I think you need to figure out what your ultimate goals are (W2W or TA) and what your budget/resources are limited by, then worry about rules and such. no need to worry about what-ifs at this point.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Yes, I am aware of that, my point was that in the grand scheme of things if one really wanted to run time attack with a Miata, not having the ability to replace the windshield with Lexan should be pretty low down the list of reasons why you wouldn't do it.
    If you have not built the cars yet, as with the OP, yes. If you already have a mini-fleet of cars with plastic windshields and no dashes, it's frustrating. I don't want to build a car specifically for RLTA/GTA, etc but I do want to take my race prepped cars there. Thus, my frequent derailing of threads that make any mention of these events.

    And why do we still call them Time Attack when the 1 or 2 lap format was abandoned long ago? It's Time Trialing. Guess that doesn't fit in with the whole DJ's, baggy pants, wallet chains and half naked models atmosphere.

    /rant
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    LongWinded National Champ Bueller's Avatar
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    lol
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    E, is the glass windshield and putting the dash back all that's holding you from participating?
    C'mon man...

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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    \ If you already have a mini-fleet of cars with plastic windshields and no dashes, it's frustrating. I don't want to build a car specifically for RLTA/GTA, etc but I do want to take my race prepped cars there.
    Out of curiosity, what car do you want to bring that would be competitive? I am only familiar with Crusher as being your fastest car (before being sold) -- do you have something else you'd want to bring out?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    E, is the glass windshield and putting the dash back all that's holding you from participating?
    C'mon man...
    Yup. It's actually a fair amount of work with the cages that are in my car. That and a fairly high entry fee and the guarantee I'll get annihilated by much higher powered cars.


    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    Out of curiosity, what car do you want to bring that would be competitive? I am only familiar with Crusher as being your fastest car (before being sold) -- do you have something else you'd want to bring out?
    Nothing competitive, just a bunch of Miatas. That fastest of which is maybe 11lbs/hp. Price of admission in most classes seems to be around 7~8lbs/hp. To get to 11lbs/hp, I needs to yank absolutely everything out of the car so all carbon body panels like we ran at NASA nationals, no dash, plastic windows, etc.

    So yeah, you're not likely to see any of my cars in Time Attacking Racing until there are some lbs/hp adjustments made to the rules.

    P.S. I suppose I could bring my daily driver C6 Z06 in street class..
    Last edited by emilio700; 11-25-2013 at 05:03 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    If you have not built the cars yet, as with the OP, yes. If you already have a mini-fleet of cars with plastic windshields and no dashes, it's frustrating. I don't want to build a car specifically for RLTA/GTA, etc but I do want to take my race prepped cars there. Thus, my frequent derailing of threads that make any mention of these events.

    And why do we still call them Time Attack when the 1 or 2 lap format was abandoned long ago? It's Time Trialing. Guess that doesn't fit in with the whole DJ's, baggy pants, wallet chains and half naked models atmosphere.

    /rant
    Time Attack in Japan is ran in sessions. Rev Speed that started Time Attack and now Battle Evome are all done in sessions. Not to mention that RTA does two three lap timed sessions like you're mentioning.

    It also goes both ways. I've thought about doing NASA TT events. However my full interior DD Enthusiast class car wouldn't be in any of the ttb-ttf classes and I would have to compete in TT3 with an adjusted power to weight of 11.7 which is way off.

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    Once you have the adrenaline rush of Diving into the first corner five cars wide where two will fit your crack addiction may become complete. You might find other venues to be lacking, an unsatisfying pastime, until your next hit off the racing crack pipe.

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    Can someone tell me what class a 100% bone stock stock C6 Z06 would fit into with 200 treadwear tires for all of the Time Attacking Racing series that run on the west coast?

    rules.. tl:dr
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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Can someone tell me what class a 100% bone stock stock C6 Z06 would fit into with 200 treadwear tires for all of the Time Attacking Racing series that run on the west coast?

    rules.. tl:dr
    Your issue is going to be tire width. Street and Enthusiast class RWD is limited to 285 width. Grab some spare wheels and slap 285 RS3 on them and you are good to go for GTA (Enthusiast and Street classes) and RTA (only Street class).

    It's actually an excellent candidate for a Street class car...
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    If over $50k, you automatically are bumped into Street RWD for RTA. RTA also has a 140TW and 285 width rule for Street RWD cars, so you'd have to run much narrower tires than you currently run in the rear.

    ETA has no price limit for Street class, but same limits for TW and width. Tuner RWD has 140TW and 305 width rules.

    GTA Enthusiast and Street: same exceptions for TW and width as above RTA Street class. Except you can swap a four-rotor in if you want to.

    Other points of view:

    A six point cage means I have to wear a crap ton of safety gear I don't have. It increases my initial costs by thousands- I'd rather run a well-built roll bar with anti-sub belts and a fire extinguisher and eschew the additional cost for the first year. For the second year, I'll make it real. It's my life and I don't feel that I should have my hand held at all points- I am the one driving, I am the one calling the shots. I'll run a quality helmet and dual-density bar padding but otherwise I'd prefer the comfort of what I normally wear. I've been off my fair share, and never at any real speed, and my aforementioned opinion may change should I lose it on BW13 or Big Willow... I've never gone above 110 at a track day and have a sense of security that may be inflated.

    Edit: Houck beat me to it. Also, Latitude 33 Vanilla's Porter is tasty.
    Last edited by SOneThreeCoupe; 11-25-2013 at 07:31 PM.

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    Senior Member cosmin's Avatar
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    They need to make a hairdressers class.
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