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Thread: Super Cars analogue VS electronic complicated wizardry

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    Default Super Cars analogue VS electronic complicated wizardry

    He boils it all down in the end as to what makes us happy. I have to agree.

    Scroll down and watch the video

    Supercars: the ten best on sale | evo

    As further example I would like to see a road going version of the NSX GT Supercar concept than the upcoming hybrid.
    Honda NSX Concept-GT - New Entry To GT500 Class for 2014 Super GT Series - FreshnessMag.com

    Another case in point: I'd still rather see the 918 Porsche with the magnificent V8 minus all the electronic hybrid gizmos and I think Harry would agree.

    The kicker is they would all be a huge amount less in weight, maintenance and price.
    Last edited by markhs2; 09-18-2013 at 07:59 PM.

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    Senior Member pucsicsal's Avatar
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    I agree 100% as a driver, but imagine how far ahead Porsche will be once the breakthrough in battery technology comes and battery packs becomes as light as a tank of gas and charge in a few minutes? All the motors and electronics will be already developed and manufacturing process in place, all Porsche will have to do is slap in the new battery. We will be able to have our cake and eat it too in the near future I think!
    Last edited by pucsicsal; 09-18-2013 at 08:32 PM.

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    Is it just me, or were all of the interior video sequences with the driver talking taken in the same car? Every one had that "window inside window" black curved stripe on the passenger side window. I don't think all of the cars tested have that. And the harness looks exactly the same in each car.

    I call Shenanigans!!!
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 09-18-2013 at 09:31 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucsicsal View Post
    but imagine how far ahead Porsche will be once the breakthrough in battery technology comes and battery packs [URL="http://vimeo.com/51873011"]becomes as light as a tank of gas and charge in a few minutes. We will be able to have our cake and eat it too in the near future I think!
    Don't count on it. Battery R&D has been going on for decades and very little progress has been made. It does not develop along a curve like "Moore's Law" in semiconductors or disk drive density. It is a painstaking, slow and expensive small incremental R&D process. Maybe someone will invent something for batteries that is the equivalent of the transistor that will set battery advancement at a crazy pace, but there is not even of glimmer of light on the horizon for that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Don't count on it. Battery R&D has been going on for decades and very little progress has been made. It does not develop along a curve like "Moore's Law" in semiconductors or disk drive density. It is a painstaking, slow and expensive small incremental R&D process. Maybe someone will invent something for batteries that is the equivalent of the transistor that will set battery advancement at a crazy pace, but there is not even of glimmer of light on the horizon for that.
    +1. I come down in this debate on the side of the "simple" analog Super Cars. All that electric motors, hybrid technology, heavy battery packs, etc. add to cars like this is weight, complexity, and cost. All of that complicated $h!t will just break down on track and send you home crying on a flatbed (or your own very expensive rig) after a very expensive misadventure.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by pucsicsal View Post
    I agree 100% as a driver, but imagine how far ahead Porsche will be once the breakthrough in battery technology comes and battery packs becomes as light as a tank of gas and charge in a few minutes? All the motors and electronics will be already developed and manufacturing process in place, all Porsche will have to do is slap in the new battery. We will be able to have our cake and eat it too in the near future I think!

    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Don't count on it. Battery R&D has been going on for decades and very little progress has been made. It does not develop along a curve like "Moore's Law" in semiconductors or disk drive density. It is a painstaking, slow and expensive small incremental R&D process. Maybe someone will invent something for batteries that is the equivalent of the transistor that will set battery advancement at a crazy pace, but there is not even of glimmer of light on the horizon for that.
    I agree with Oli and will add that even if and when the battery technology gets super light at some time that still does not negate or reduce the weight and complexity of the associated electronics and electric motors and drive components.

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    The internal combustion engine is one of the greatest inventions in the history of the human race. An exotic car version of the Nissan Leaf? Not so much . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Cmon guys.. there has to be some hope! I wouldn't even think to purchase any of the hybrid/electric supercars either if I had a spare mil laying around (I'd get an F40). But I'm just sayin, I'm sure the automakers know something or they wouldn't have been dumping all this R&D money and instead would have just lobbyed with more $$$ against cafe..
    Last edited by pucsicsal; 09-19-2013 at 10:27 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pucsicsal View Post
    Cmon guys.. there has to be some hope! I wouldn't even think to purchase any of the hybrid/electric supercars either if I had a spare mil laying around (I'd get an F40). But I'm just sayin, I'm sure the automakers know something or they wouldn't have been dumping all this R&D money and instead would have just lobbyed with more $$$ against cafe..
    The automakers know that it is politically correct to offer a line of cars that are "green." They additionally are being compelled by our government to do so. Lastly, the government is spending tons of our tax dollars to create a market that is not there yet, for which the infrastructure does not yet exist for large numbers of electric vehicles and lastly the technology does not exist to fulfill the dream. Your tax dollars are being spent in the billions for grants and loans on this stuff. Fisker was across the street from my office. I think they pissed away around $500-750 million dollars or more.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    The automakers know that it is politically correct to offer a line of cars that are "green." They additionally are being compelled by our government to do so. Lastly, the government is spending tons of our tax dollars to create a market that is not there yet, for which the infrastructure does not yet exist for large numbers of electric vehicles and lastly the technology does not exist to fulfill the dream. Your tax dollars are being spent in the billions for grants and loans on this stuff. Fisker was across the street from my office. I think they pissed away around $500-750 million dollars or more.
    but you are forgetting subsidies oil companies get in form of loan, tax and incentives.....to the tune of few billions an year.
    AND they have been getting subsidies for over 50 years..

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    but you are forgetting subsidies oil companies get in form of loan, tax and incentives.....to the tune of few billions an year.
    AND they have been getting subsidies for over 50 years..

    you
    Oil companies typically don't get cash grants or loans from the federal, state or local governments. The solar/green companies get specific grants that don't need to be paid back and/or government loans from us taxpayers that usually get the other investors out first before the taxpayers are secured in repayment. That is certainly the case with Fiskar and some of the failed solar ventures funded from the stimulus.

    People say oil companies get subsidies all the time. Just because it gets said over and over does not make it true. What the oil companies do get is tax credits for their research, development and speculative geo work they do. If those ventures lose money or fail they get to write-off those ventures. If they make a ton of money by hitting it big then they pay taxes. That is the same for all other corporations in and out of oil. If people want to call that a subsidy then fine, but I call it a mischaracterization of tax code. A subsidy to me is when you are given cash to compete. Getting back some of your own tax money is not a subsidy.

    When people on this forum get money back on taxes paid is that a subsidy or a refund of an overpayment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    When people on this forum get money back on taxes paid is that a subsidy or a refund of an overpayment?
    to me, it is the same thing. I don't care what they call that check govt send me. they can call it whatever they want. that check still comes out of tax payers
    they can call it cash subsidy or call it a tax refund (as long as I am paying less than Oli - or other business sectors), bottom line is a dollar is exactly a dollar regardless the name.

    don't forget most large scale industries in its infant stage gets some type of help. same thing with semi conductor, same thing with bio tech.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 09-19-2013 at 02:47 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    to me, it is the same thing. I don't care what they call that check govt send me. they can call it whatever they want. that check still comes out of tax payers
    they can call it cash subsidy or call it a tax refund (as long as I am paying less than Oli - or other business sectors), bottom line is a dollar is exactly a dollar regardless the name.

    don't forget most large scale industries in its infant stage gets some type of help. same thing with semi conductor, same thing with bio tech.

    I am happy as long as you and me combined pay less than The Sheriff.
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    Oli loves big oil. William loves all that green BS. I don't care, as long as the car has a manual gearbox . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Oil companies typically don't get cash grants or loans from the federal, state or local governments. The solar/green companies get specific grants that don't need to be paid back and/or government loans from us taxpayers that usually get the other investors out first before the taxpayers are secured in repayment. That is certainly the case with Fiskar and some of the failed solar ventures funded from the stimulus.

    People say oil companies get subsidies all the time. Just because it gets said over and over does not make it true. What the oil companies do get is tax credits for their research, development and speculative geo work they do. If those ventures lose money or fail they get to write-off those ventures. If they make a ton of money by hitting it big then they pay taxes. That is the same for all other corporations in and out of oil. If people want to call that a subsidy then fine, but I call it a mischaracterization of tax code. A subsidy to me is when you are given cash to compete. Getting back some of your own tax money is not a subsidy.

    When people on this forum get money back on taxes paid is that a subsidy or a refund of an overpayment?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Oli loves big oil. .
    Anagram.... Oli = Oil
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Anagram.... Oli = Oil
    Not exactly an anagram . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Not exactly an anagram . . .
    Hmmm...thought anagram is word play...anyway what do you expect from a scientist?

    Its 1972 and Bruce Lee is red hot. A playground bully is hassling me. He receives my best karate chop to the neck a 12 y/o kung fu movie watcher could deliver. That's code for "it was lame." Still I drop him like a sack of rocks. I get called into the principal's office. Blah blah blah about fighting and "Why did you use your words not fists?" My reply..."If I swear at him I'll get my mouth washed out with soap." The conversation ended and my Mom was called. So there you have it the basis of my understanding of the English Language. Obviously not what the Principal inferred when he asked the question.
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