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Thread: So, who's happy with the 2016 PT rules?

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Default So, who's happy with the 2016 PT rules?

    Link -

    https://nasa-assets.s3.amazonaws.com...cial_Rules.pdf

    Complaints about the changes starting in 3, 2, 1... go!

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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Care to share the big changes? I've spent too much of my life already reading PT rules.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    NB1 +10 Lbs
    NC +100 Lbs (2625!)
    ND base class is TTE** @ 2400
    No more -10 points for -40 mm tire
    Rival S and RE71 are +6 tires

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Aw yes. but even better is this.

    more than two wheels off course during an incident, or has both front or both rear wheels off course at the same time, will lose any timed result from that session. Any competitor who spins a vehicle greater than 80 degrees relative to the track direction or loses control of the vehicle such that it creates a potentially dangerous/hazardous condition if another vehicle was nearby will lose any timed result from that session. This rule specifically applies to any competitor who drops wheels off the track and “hooks” back across the track, regardless of whether the vehicle spins or goes more than two wheels off. It also applies to “tank-slappers” where the driver has to significantly slow the vehicle to regain control to the point that a closely following vehicle would be forced to make an evasive maneuver to avoid car contact. Also, any vehicle that hits a wall or another vehicle may be disqualified for any number of sessions, including the entire event, at the discretion of the TT Director." TT drivers MUST keep their vehicles under control at all times!"

    and this.


    Failure of a competitor to report a mistake in scoring which benefits himself/herself is a form of unsportsmanlike conduct. Because NASA TT events are continuous throughout the entire day, and cars are subject to compliance inspection at any time while at the event, failure of a TT competitor to report to the TT Director a failed Dyno test in another competition series (while simultaneously competing in TT) shall be considered another form of unsportsmanlike conduct. The penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct may include expulsion from further NASA TT competition or suspension followed by classification in an unlimited class for any future events.

    Moral of the story... don't go faster then Greg in his class and tell on your self if they make a mistake.

    Bottom line is. I do not think Director or official be able to compete in any class he or she has an influence on the results. And the "TT drivers MUST keep their vehicles under control at all times!", line is BS. Driving on the edge to get the most out of your car. IS what competition IS. Finding that edge. Stepping over it just a tad and bringing it back, to me, is control. To others? So this is a subjective rule. That was made up (and tried to put into effect) at a national event.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    Care to share the big changes? I've spent too much of my life already reading PT rules.
    And they may change while your reading them.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I really think PT should adopt a spec tire. The RR would be a good fit although something less expensive per race would be even better. I know people like their Hoosiers but they prevent the participation of racers with smaller budgets.
    Last edited by Red_5; 12-02-2015 at 11:36 PM.
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Eric, you won't solve anything with it because someone with more money can buy more spec tires.
    How is it any different than SM?

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Eric, you won't solve anything with it because someone with more money can buy more spec tires.
    How is it any different than SM?
    I raced World Challenge in 2011 and the spec tire was the Toyo R888. They marked the tires on the car at the beginning of the weekend and those were the only tires we were allowed to run. I have been in motorcylce endurance competitions where parts and tires were marked and could not be replaced during the course of the event.

    It is possible to limit tires, but I am not necessarily for that rule.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Eric, you won't solve anything with it because someone with more money can buy more spec tires.
    How is it any different than SM?
    Oli touched on one way. The other is use a tire that doesn't cycle out quickly so the fresh tire is less of an advantage. The RC-1 used in SPM is a great example. Sure there are faster tires out there but there isn't a huge difference between new RC-1s and RC-1s with 3 weekends or more of racing on them. The 205 RC-1s that I put on my car for Sun at Miatas at MRLS were 2 years old and were the actual tires NASA used to class them. Yes they were slower and less predictable than my much newer set of 225s but they weren't bad considering how long ago they had their first heat cycle.

    I just don't understand why people want to spend so much money on tires to not race anyone else. Maybe I just need a better budget.
    bawareca likes this.
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    Aw yes. but even better is this.

    more than two wheels off course during an incident, or has both front or both rear wheels off course at the same time, will lose any timed result from that session. Any competitor who spins a vehicle greater than 80 degrees relative to the track direction or loses control of the vehicle such that it creates a potentially dangerous/hazardous condition if another vehicle was nearby will lose any timed result from that session. This rule specifically applies to any competitor who drops wheels off the track and “hooks” back across the track, regardless of whether the vehicle spins or goes more than two wheels off. It also applies to “tank-slappers” where the driver has to significantly slow the vehicle to regain control to the point that a closely following vehicle would be forced to make an evasive maneuver to avoid car contact. Also, any vehicle that hits a wall or another vehicle may be disqualified for any number of sessions, including the entire event, at the discretion of the TT Director." TT drivers MUST keep their vehicles under control at all times!"

    and this.


    Failure of a competitor to report a mistake in scoring which benefits himself/herself is a form of unsportsmanlike conduct. Because NASA TT events are continuous throughout the entire day, and cars are subject to compliance inspection at any time while at the event, failure of a TT competitor to report to the TT Director a failed Dyno test in another competition series (while simultaneously competing in TT) shall be considered another form of unsportsmanlike conduct. The penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct may include expulsion from further NASA TT competition or suspension followed by classification in an unlimited class for any future events.

    Moral of the story... don't go faster then Greg in his class and tell on your self if they make a mistake.

    Bottom line is. I do not think Director or official be able to compete in any class he or she has an influence on the results. And the "TT drivers MUST keep their vehicles under control at all times!", line is BS. Driving on the edge to get the most out of your car. IS what competition IS. Finding that edge. Stepping over it just a tad and bringing it back, to me, is control. To others? So this is a subjective rule. That was made up (and tried to put into effect) at a national event.
    Oh calm down. It's just refining the tools to beat someone over the head with if they reduce speed dramatically without good reason. And losing times for a session where you got wild isn't that mean of a blow. They don't want dust clouds or dirt or any other disruptions.

    Asking drivers to fess up to a car they know has been proven non-compliant isn't a huge ask either.

  11. #11
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Oh calm down. It's just refining the tools to beat someone over the head with if they reduce speed dramatically without good reason. And losing times for a session where you got wild isn't that mean of a blow. They don't want dust clouds or dirt or any other disruptions.
    Well I would kind of think that too. If this rule didn't come up and was tried put into effect after Greg's time got beat by someone that got a little sideways at the end of his run. Greg tried to DQ his session with this new rule. Only to have other officials step in and overrule Greg after vewing the video. Makes you think.
    This is also lends to my statement about officials and Directors should not be aloud to compete in classes they have influence over the out come.

    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Asking drivers to fess up to a car they know has been proven non-compliant isn't a huge ask either.
    I didn't read it that way. I read it as: You should point out mistakes in the officials decisions if it's a benefit to you. Personally I don't think I could live with myself if I knew I won a race by mistake. But that's just me.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    Well I would kind of think that too. If this rule didn't come up and was tried put into effect after Greg's time got beat by someone that got a little sideways at the end of his run. Greg tried to DQ his session with this new rule. Only to have other officials step in and overrule Greg after vewing the video. Makes you think.
    This is also lends to my statement about officials and Directors should not be aloud to compete in classes they have influence over the out come.

    I didn't read it that way. I read it as: You should point out mistakes in the officials decisions if it's a benefit to you. Personally I don't think I could live with myself if I knew I won a race by mistake. But that's just me.
    Ah, just contact Ryan and request a policy of having the race steward and/or Ryan make a ruling on any TT issue with front runners in Greg's PT class. Problem solved.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Ah, just contact Ryan and request a policy of having the race steward and/or Ryan make a ruling on any TT issue with front runners in Greg's PT class. Problem solved.
    Well, It did sort it's self out. And don't get me wrong. I've like Rayn and Greg as well. But I can't help but feel like that would come with a big target on your back. I already drive 2 cars that seem to not be on Greg's favorites list.
    Though you are right. If I have a concern I should bring it up to the powers at the top.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Yep. NASA may have its flaws, but they are very good about things that help business. This seems like an easy one.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Please delete me.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 12-04-2015 at 05:16 PM.

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    Sir flink
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    me too!
    Last edited by flink; 12-04-2015 at 05:22 PM.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I saw Flink whining in the GTS thread
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