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Thread: Safety items - order of importance

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Default Safety items - order of importance

    looking to see which safety items comes next. can u rate them in order of importance and why. assume u have a street car, which mods (on car or driver) should come first. minimally to run an HPDE day, you need a open face helmet, that's it (if you have a Miata, u also need to have a roll bar).


    Full face helmet instead of open face
    hood - fireproof
    cool suit (yes I consider this a safety item)
    racing suit - fireproof
    neck collar support - fireproof
    Racing seat
    driving shoe - fireproof
    driving glove - fireproof
    5/6 pt. harness
    roll bar (in a non-convertible)
    roll cage
    fuel cell
    fire extinguisher
    HANS device (or similar ones)
    arm restraint / window net

    I have been doing HPDE about 3-4 years. never seen a fire, but have seen about 15-20 crashes, some deadly. I would even rate window net over a racing suit. but I've also seen some of you (u know who u r) bought racing suit, cool suit, driving glove, driving shoe before harnesses. it doesn't make sense to me. money is always in constraint, u have to buy one before another. which will u choose and why.
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    5. Full face helmet instead of open face
    6. hood - fireproof and fireproof socks.
    10. cool suit (yes I consider this a safety item)
    4. racing suit - fireproof
    neck collar support - fireproof (don't have one myself)
    3. Racing seat
    6. driving shoe - fireproof
    6. driving glove - fireproof
    2. 5/6 pt. harness
    1. roll bar (in a non-convertible)
    1. roll cage (much better than roll bar)
    11. fuel cell
    7. fire extinguisher
    8. HANS device (or similar ones)
    arm restraint (not necesary except in open wheel car
    9. window net

    get all the #6 at same time.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    I would ditch the neck collar. I think they are worthless. There is no evidence they help in an impact. In fact, I think they could end up working more like a wedge to separate your cervical vertebrae. All they do is perhaps reduce some neck fatigue, but I never seem to get that anyway...

    I don't think fuels cells do anything for a production car. Stock fuel tanks are very safe and well engineered. After the 1974 $100m Pinto gas tank exploding legal judgement a ton of engineering goes into making sure our cars don't explode on impact.

    If you want to go fast, get a good race seat to hold you in the car. You will need a harness to make that work. Get a helmet or don't get on the track. The cost difference between open and closed face is often negligible. Then get a HANS. A four point roll-bar is a sensible addition, too, on all cars. These things don't cost that much. Less than aftermarket turbos, coil-overs and the like.

    If you are held tightly in your seat and feel safe you will be faster. Ditch all the car modifications if you want to go fast and buy more track time and tires to work on modifying the interface between the race seat and the steering wheel/pedal controls.

    Those are my thoughts,

    SlOli


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    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    Great thread William.

    I feel the same way regarding the suit. FWIW, with my brief 2 yr experience running hpde, i never heard of anyone being knock unconscious and their car catching on fire at the same time. Or crashing so badly that they are unable to climb out while the car is on fire. (Patricko came very close ) So IMO a driving suit might be overkill for hpde or even TA for some extend.

    Here is my order:
    1) full face helmet
    2) HANS or equivalent
    3) Seat with 5-6pt harness (might also want to get Rollbar or cage at the same time)
    4) Rollbar or Cage
    5) window net

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mlk_f1 View Post
    Great thread William.

    I feel the same way regarding the suit. FWIW, with my brief 2 yr experience running hpde, i never heard of anyone being knock unconscious and their car catching on fire at the same time. Or crashing so badly that they are unable to climb out while the car is on fire. So IMO a driving suit might be overkill for hpde or even TA for some extend.

    Here is my order:
    1) full face helmet
    2) HANS or equivalent
    3) Seat with 5-6pt harness (might also want to get Rollbar or cage at the same time)
    4) Rollbar or Cage
    5) window net
    Pretty tough to do #2 without #3 and (and maybe #4) unfortunately so would want to swap those. Given the cost and what I saw occur at the NASA WSIR event, a window net is also pretty high on my priority list.

    ****, just put them all in #1

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    Quote Originally Posted by mlk_f1 View Post
    Great thread William.

    I feel the same way regarding the suit. FWIW, with my brief 2 yr experience running hpde, i never heard of anyone being knock unconscious and their car catching on fire at the same time. Or crashing so badly that they are unable to climb out while the car is on fire. (Patricko came very close ) So IMO a driving suit might be overkill for hpde or even TA for some extend.

    Here is my order:
    1) full face helmet
    2) HANS or equivalent
    3) Seat with 5-6pt harness (might also want to get Rollbar or cage at the same time)
    4) Rollbar or Cage
    5) window net
    Im with ya... but did you hear about the Elise that burned to the ground out at SMMP some years back? I know RIchard was there, track sealant gunked up under it & it caught on fire, man, there was nothing left of that car after it burned to the ground.

    Its so hot out here though... its really rough to put on that nomex undergarment!

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Pretty tough to do #2 without #3 and (and maybe #4) unfortunately so would want to swap those.
    question: so it is not possible to do HANS (or R3) w/o racing harness ?
    I thought about that Porsche GT fatalities at Cal Speedway infield. tub was intact, so I thought a HANS device would of saved both.

    modern car is pretty strong. even that Mini at WSIR turn 9, smashed up, it was more or less a harness issue, no ?
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    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    ^^^ yeah, that was Patricko's burnt elise at SMMP. I was told the fire started from the new tarmac being throw on the catalytic.

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    question: so it is not possible to do HANS (or R3) w/o racing harness ?
    I thought about that Porsche GT fatalities at Cal Speedway infield. tub was intact, so I thought a HANS device would of saved both.

    modern car is pretty strong. even that Mini at WSIR turn 9, smashed up, it was more or less a harness issue, no ?
    You can't use a HANS without a racing harness (3") as thats what holds the hans to your body which is in turn connected to your helmet.

    From my understanding the Mini issue was as much about a window net as a harness, but definitely recommend both of course.

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    Actually you can use 2" shoulder belts with a HANS, at least for SCCA. I prefer them (and that's what I have in my car.

    I'd lump cage/seat/harness together
    then HANS and suit
    then fire suppression stuff.

    You can get an SFI3.2/1 suit (the lighter weight kind) very inexpensively and get a little protection if coupled with Nomex/CarbonX underneath. So I tend to think it's worth it.

    Steve

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    Professor Chaos thefrush's Avatar
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    My order:

    Helmet
    Cage
    Seat
    Harness
    HANS
    Suit
    Misc.
    "The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses" -Mario Andretti

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
    Actually you can use 2" shoulder belts with a HANS, at least for SCCA. I prefer them (and that's what I have in my car.

    I'd lump cage/seat/harness together
    then HANS and suit
    then fire suppression stuff.

    You can get an SFI3.2/1 suit (the lighter weight kind) very inexpensively and get a little protection if coupled with Nomex/CarbonX underneath. So I tend to think it's worth it.

    Steve
    It was always my understanding that HANS specified a 3" harness, but not certain/too lazy to look it up I know that Schroth makes a 3" -> 2" harness for use with HANS but I didn't think HANS had necessarily 'approved' it.

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    Driver upgrade 2.51 JC3D's Avatar
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    Another option for the window net, if you aren't ready to modify your car that much, is arm restraints. They are not as effective but still better than nothing.
    John
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    JC3D // Racecars and Keyframes // 996 Spec

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    can R3 be used without a harness ? if so, that would be great for instructors who jumps into other people's cars. or for some super cars that you don't want to install 6 pt. harness in.

    Richard is the expert on R3.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 07-30-2008 at 05:30 PM.
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    Senior Member plastique999's Avatar
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    where do you get a cool suit....it's frickin hot at the tracks now...

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by plastique999 View Post
    where do you get a cool suit....it's frickin hot at the tracks now...
    http://www.saferacer.com/_search.php...=0&q=cool+suit

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    It was always my understanding that HANS specified a 3" harness, but not certain/too lazy to look it up I know that Schroth makes a 3" -> 2" harness for use with HANS but I didn't think HANS had necessarily 'approved' it.
    AFAIK the Schroth 2" are HANS approved; while I haven't looked specifically I'll be amazed if it's not true.

    Since the HANS itself is slightly wider than 2", I prefer it because the easy test to make sure the belt is completely on the HANS is to just make sure it's not hanging off the outside edge of the HANS.

    However, for SCCA, the downside is that you MUST use a HANS with the 2" belts. I don't consider that a big deal, though.

    Steve

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
    ...for SCCA, the downside is that you MUST use a HANS with the 2" belts.
    Are you sure that is true? Where did you read that? Is it in the GCR?

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    Senior Member racebronco2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
    However, for SCCA, the downside is that you MUST use a HANS with the 2" belts. I don't consider that a big deal, though.

    Steve
    I have heard that testing on the hans with a 2" shoulder belt. It seems that the 3" could side off in a roll over. The 2" is only to hold the hans in place,both belts then tie into a 3" belt. A couple of manufacturers already have then out. I talked to steve abbot about them couple of days ago and he mentioned that he's seen then at the shop where he bought his helmet.

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    Senior Member racebronco2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thefrush View Post
    My order:

    Helmet
    Cage
    Seat
    Harness
    HANS
    Suit
    Misc.
    This is the order i am using. I've already have done 1,2 and in the process of 3 and 4. Should be done by august 9th track event.

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