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Thread: The road to the NASA Nationals

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Default The road to the NASA Nationals

    This will be my first time to go to the NASA National Championships at Mid-Ohio. It's been a long time coming. When I bought this car, I did it with the intent to go to the nationals. I wish it was a little farther along in its preparation. But with the motor problems, a limited budget and time and not really having a shop to work out of. I spent too much of my time on that. Thanks to a good friend and rotary guru Darren @ Wildpony motorsports I have built my first rotary motor. I know rotaries are not that hard to build. But to build a motor, any motor, to compete at a National level needs to be a little more than just average.

    The car. A 1st gen Rx7 that when I got it was in Spec 7 form. Mind you, working with some of the best, I have helped built word class race cars. But this car is nowhere close to that.
    I just have not had, or put the time into it. It still has the stock rubber suspension mounts. Pro 7 springs (way to soft). As well as a few more things that could be done. But times up and I need to run what I have. As long as I can stay with the front runners. Thatís all I'm looking for this year.
    Next year I'll be going for the win. Not that I would turn down a win this year.

    So my question to you guys, never being to Mid-Ohio is. What should I bring and how should I prepare?

    This is what I have so far.
    I have 2 sets of stickers and one set of good test tires. One set of full tread Toyo's (for rains).
    Ducting to make a defroster out of a vent (not sure if this will work)
    Rain gear, Rain X and Fog X and a place to keep dry.

    Thanks in advance for any help or suggestions
    Last edited by Gian; 08-18-2012 at 08:33 AM.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    im in on this as well! very interested to hear what people have to suggest here. sorry to peek in without insight haha, but you beat me to the punch!

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    LongWinded National Champ Bueller's Avatar
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    I went in 2008. Id say bring everything, your mother, and then some. My friend Scott Howard was racing in ST2 with his 1st gen rx7 and blew his engine on the first day, either in P1 or Q1. IIRC, he packed up and went home after that. Didnt even get to race. We all know its not realistic for most of us to go completely prepared for every scenario, but id say its something you should seriously consider given the 5000 mile trip. Before i went i asked a few people about the track, one of my friends lives there, and one thing was certain...the weather can change at the drop of a hat. And when i was there, it did. One minute it would be sunny, next thing you know its raining. It actually rained most of the time i was there. It was also during Hurricane Ike. The track was pretty much destroyed on the last day. Ill never forget that. As we were packing up to leave it gradually got windy. By the time we finished it was like war of the worlds, but with wind. As far as the tracks facilities, its nothing like MMP. The showers sucked and the water was red. lol The parking area sucked because most of it was hilly and we were all jam packed. Maybe its better now.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    if you wanna learn the track, I recommend using these guys:
    Seat Time LLC -

    they have Mid Ohio. last time I was there, a couple of Indy drivers was practicing.

    this is the simulator
    CXC Simulations - Professional Racing Simulator & Flight Simulator for home use
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    What software do they use? rFactor?

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bueller View Post
    I went in 2008. Id say bring everything, your mother, and then some. My friend Scott Howard was racing in ST2 with his 1st gen rx7 and blew his engine on the first day, either in P1 or Q1. IIRC, he packed up and went home after that. Didnt even get to race. We all know its not realistic for most of us to go completely prepared for every scenario, but id say its something you should seriously consider given the 5000 mile trip. Before i went i asked a few people about the track, one of my friends lives there, and one thing was certain...the weather can change at the drop of a hat. And when i was there, it did. One minute it would be sunny, next thing you know its raining. It actually rained most of the time i was there. It was also during Hurricane Ike. The track was pretty much destroyed on the last day. Ill never forget that. As we were packing up to leave it gradually got windy. By the time we finished it was like war of the worlds, but with wind. As far as the tracks facilities, its nothing like MMP. The showers sucked and the water was red. lol The parking area sucked because most of it was hilly and we were all jam packed. Maybe its better now.
    Yeah, I have heard about the crazy weather, I have been to Topika for the Nats. It's kind of the same weather from what I've heard. I'm bringing alot of spares, no motor. I just hope the one I just built stays together longer then it did last time.

    William, That's awsome...thanks!
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    What should I bring?
    A legal car?

    In all seriousness, make sure your car is absolutely positively as legal as you can get it since this will be the toughest scrutiny you face all year.
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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    A legal car?

    In all seriousness, make sure your car is absolutely positively as legal as you can get it since this will be the toughest scrutiny you face all year.
    Geeez one little mistake and bam... Now I'm labled... ok it was more like 10 to 15 HP over. But who's counting.. WAIT, don't anwsir that! I already know.
    As a side note, I now know what to look for when buying a "stock" motor

    Yeah Greg is already on my ass. I even took a video of the motor build just for Greg. But I will have on hand intake and exhaust gaskets so they can check my ports. Also added 10lbs so now I will be 15lbs over weight dry. Just in case.

    How many laps are they running, or is it timed? Seems like all the videos are in to 24 or so.
    Last edited by Gian; 08-19-2012 at 05:10 PM.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    What software do they use? rFactor?
    It is on the web site. But rfactor most likely. They also have Iracing commercial licenses
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    Geeez one little mistake and bam... Now I'm labled...
    Not a "little" mistake. Couple that with your attitude towards the incident and yes, you're branded as someone who doesn't read the rules carefully and may or may not actually know how there car is prepped.
    It appears you have learned a valuable lesson and may be far more careful in the future. That said, you car will forever be held in suspicion. You ever pass my PTC car like you did last race again and I'll make sure my E3
    team mate requests a visit to the dyno for you
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    ^^^Emilio -

    Remembering you failing to attend the driver's meeting at a Buttonwillow Enduro a couple of years ago, not having kitty litter, speeding in the pits, etc. etc. etc. Pot calling the kettle black.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    ^^^Emilio -

    Remembering you failing to attend the driver's meeting at a Buttonwillow Enduro a couple of years ago, not having kitty litter, speeding in the pits, etc. etc. etc. Pot calling the kettle black.
    You're comparing failure to be aware of and comply with safety regulations to cheating, racing in an illegal car? Apples to oranges in my view.
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    What was the cheating?

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    What was the cheating?
    Probably accidental in this case but it's all the same in the eyes of the rulebook. Made way too much power for the whole season and finally got dynoed. In a series where power to weight is tightly regulated,
    it's common sense for each competitor to know exactly what their car weighs and how much power it makes. We dyno constantly and have scales in our shop. We then dyno at each track we go to
    in order to make sure we're still compliant with dyno NASA will use there. If you're a continual backmarker, one might excuse a car that's in the gray area. A front running car making 10% too much power is another animal

    Hopefully Gian will go over his car with a fine tooth comb. I'd hate to see one of locals do well at Ohio and get popped for having their PT points added up wrong somewhere.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    You're comparing failure to be aware of and comply with safety regulations to cheating, racing in an illegal car? Apples to oranges in my view.
    He cheats. You cheat. So get over it. Go to the goddamn Nationals and win, or lose. But don't threaten another competitor with marshall challenges before the races. It makes you look like a gigantic PUZZY.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    He cheats. You cheat. So get over it. Go to the goddamn Nationals and win, or lose. But don't threaten another competitor with marshall challenges before the races. It makes you look like a gigantic PUZZY.
    I'll always openly threaten to protest those who gain a competitive advantage by skirting the rules. Calling me a cheater because I made my self less competitive by not understanding the rules is a bit of a stretch. I'm not necessarily offended because I get that you don't understand the concept well.

    Running several Spec Miata races with Tein Flex adjustable coilovers, knowing it gave you a competitive advantage, taking points away from legal cars as you did a few years back, is cheating. Had you had
    mistakenly run a slower street tire that was also illegal, I wouldn't call that cheating within the spirit of the rules.

    As a lawyer, you work within the absolute interpretation of written text, and readily flaunt the spirit the text was written in. You're trained and paid to do that day in and day out. As a racer, we have to understand the spirit of the rules. To me the spirit of NASA rules means not unfairly gaining a competitive advantage. Greg will hold you to the spirit of the rules as well as the letter.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Probably accidental in this case but it's all the same in the eyes of the rulebook. Made way too much power for the whole season and finally got dynoed. In a series where power to weight is tightly regulated,
    it's common sense for each competitor to know exactly what their car weighs and how much power it makes. We dyno constantly and have scales in our shop. We then dyno at each track we go to
    in order to make sure we're still compliant with dyno NASA will use there. If you're a continual backmarker, one might excuse a car that's in the gray area. A front running car making 10% too much power is another animal

    Hopefully Gian will go over his car with a fine tooth comb. I'd hate to see one of locals do well at Ohio and get popped for having their PT points added up wrong somewhere.
    For the record.
    After the OME (yes it was the 1981 12a that it came with from the dealer) motor was dynoíd before the season and was inconsistently making 120 to 130hp (should be 140 to 150). I knew I needed a new motor. Then after race 2 of the season(Sundays race at ACR), it started overheating. But I was leading, so I stayed in it and won. I limped it through the 3ed and 4th race running it full out for 4laps and cooling it for two.. Bought a pro7 car (stock motor) just for the motor. Was told the motor was "stock". I didn't even look at it (even if I had, I wouldn't know what to look for other than grinding marks).
    I do read rules carefully. The car was legal till I put in the new motor. At race 5 I finished 3rd, to have Greg dropped me one position because I failed to add up the points in each section. All the points were in taken, and added correctly in total. I just forgot to put the totals in each section.

    I ran race 5,6 and 7 with the illegal motor. But was not using the extra 10 to 15 power it made because I was shifting at 6500 to 7500 before the power curve ended. It made 15hp more @ 8000. On top of that. BW is not a HP track..

    So yes I was cheating. But laugh at myself because I didn't even use the power I had, that I was cheating with.

    If you watch the videos, you'll see. I know sometimes I had gone over 7500. Like when I got tagged in T1, was pissed getting back on track. There are also times when shifting would have not been good. So held it to the turn without shifting.

    As for crusher. I do not think I have ever past it. In fact have always let you pass by lifting for a second.
    If youíre talking about the red car your guys were racing. He was very slow in Saturdayís race. We (the top 3 cars) were lapping him.

    I do have a candid attitude. Because thatís me. The only thing I hate worse than cheating. Is cheating, not knowing about it AND getting caught, blindsided, with my pants down.
    If you believe this or not is up to you. But adding to it doesn't help. Understand this. I will and have done my best to be within the rules for PTE. I still have a lot I can do(big brakes, stock rubber suspension pivots, springs, and a blown LSD to name 4) to get everything out of the rules. But because I've been spending all my time with motor drama, I have not.

    So you can look forward to my car being faster in the next year to come and just because I'm not running a Miata, it does not make me a cheater. Ok I'm off my soap box! Screew you guys I'm going to Ohio
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I'll always openly threaten to protest those who gain a competitive advantage by skirting the rules. Calling me a cheater because I made my self less competitive by not understanding the rules is a bit of a stretch. I'm not necessarily offended because I get that you don't understand the concept well.

    Running several Spec Miata races with Tein Flex adjustable coilovers, knowing it gave you a competitive advantage, taking points away from legal cars as you did a few years back, is cheating. Had you had
    mistakenly run a slower street tire that was also illegal, I wouldn't call that cheating within the spirit of the rules.

    As a lawyer, you work within the absolute interpretation of written text, and readily flaunt the spirit the text was written in. You're trained and paid to do that day in and day out. As a racer, we have to understand the spirit of the rules. To me the spirit of NASA rules means not unfairly gaining a competitive advantage. Greg will hold you to the spirit of the rules as well as the letter.
    Personaly I feel. you can Cheat all you want till you get into the trophys. Then you'd better be legal!
    Emilio, as you get to know me. You'll see. I pull no punches. Even if it is me that's at the brunt of it. The only reason I didn't dyno the car before the race at BW was because I spent the cash on much needed radios.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    K NOW I'm off the soap box
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    I have never raced with NASA. What is the path to NASA nationals? Do you have to place a certain place regionally or dividionally? Or just race so many races in class or what? NASA will be at miller in 2013 so that is actualy towable. I never even considered SCCA runoffs at RA because west of Colorado is a different country.

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