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Thread: Real? Spec Miata dyno curves for top prep cars

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Default Real(?) Spec Miata dyno curves for top prep cars

    Last edited by robburgoon; 03-27-2013 at 10:40 AM.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    From the thread on mazdaracers. Dyno by Jim Drago's shop, one of the top Spec Miata builders in the country

    126.46whp Blue 02
    128.05whp Purple 99
    125.41whp Red 90

    These numbers are completely plausible based on what we have seen with blueprinted motors. The NB1 intake cam has a tad more curtain area than the NB2 intake cam even though the NB2 has a full .044" more peak lift.
    This and the VVT are why the NB2's have a bit more torque but less peak power than an NB1. The SM guys are into the stock ECU's but don't have the scope of adjustment range we do with standalone ECU's.
    Notice he did not post AFR's. I would consider that info a trade secret if I were an SM builder.

    What is inferred in his post is that a gray area or really short lived motor could be built with a bit more power. Also that some outliers with the same specs as these make just a bit more. All make sense. I have personally seen a 131whp dyno from a 1.6 at a NASA event. Very creative these SM racers

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Well, the 131 was from a suspected cheater whose car went up for sale not long after being dyno'd, so yeah....

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Oops, just realized my title was unclear. I believe this numbers and curves to be real. Just take anything from SM with a grain of salt.

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    I believe those numbers are real.

    I'm envious, disconcerted and discouraged by those numbers because I have a rough idea of the power my car makes and what it will take to make more — $$$, duh — but I believe they're real.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Well, the 131 was from a suspected cheater whose car went up for sale not long after being dyno'd, so yeah....
    I feel bad for the suspected "cheater", I was there also. because MCE dyno read 3% higher. so in reality, that motor would of read 127whp on most SOCAL dyno I know of.
    I don't know whether Jim Drago's dyno reads high or low. but Jim Drago says in the post some of his "top" motor is 2hp higher, which puts it exactly at 127whp.
    so that cheater motor make exactly the same whp as Jim Drago's "legal" motor, but he is now labeled a cheat.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 03-27-2013 at 12:13 PM.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    From the thread on mazdaracers. Dyno by Jim Drago's shop, one of the top Spec Miata builders in the country

    126.46whp Blue 02
    128.05whp Purple 99
    125.41whp Red 90

    These numbers are completely plausible based on what we have seen with blueprinted motors. The NB1 intake cam has a tad more curtain area than the NB2 intake cam even though the NB2 has a full .044" more peak lift.
    This and the VVT are why the NB2's have a bit more torque but less peak power than an NB1. The SM guys are into the stock ECU's but don't have the scope of adjustment range we do with standalone ECU's.
    Notice he did not post AFR's. I would consider that info a trade secret if I were an SM builder.

    What is inferred in his post is that a gray area or really short lived motor could be built with a bit more power. Also that some outliers with the same specs as these make just a bit more. All make sense. I have personally seen a 131whp dyno from a 1.6 at a NASA event. Very creative these SM racers
    1. SM motor (1.8) have restrictors. so these are still high numbers
    2. don't all top SM run reflashed ECU ? at least that was the case 2 years ago.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I also don't quite believe Jim Drago's dyno. didn't he advertise his motor for making 130whp, and sold them in the classified ? I haven't been to SM forum in the last year, but I vaguely remembered he claimed 130whp in his ad 2 yrs ago.
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I also don't quite believe Jim Drago's dyno. didn't he advertise his motor for making 130whp, and sold them in the classified ? I haven't been to SM forum in the last year, but I vaguely remembered he claimed 130whp in his ad 2 yrs ago.
    The cheater's torque curve was shaped funny, that's what got him the attention. If he didn't want to be labeled a cheat, he should have gone along with having his cam looked at. The kid is a turd anyway.

    Two years ago might have been with a different restrictor plate.

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    I want to say my SM in 2005 with a brand new (unopened) Mazda 1.6 crate motor and tuned AFM made ~112-115rwhp. Does that sound right?

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Two years ago would have been a 47 mm plate. We now have 45s.

    so that cheater motor make exactly the same whp as Jim Drago's "legal" motor, but he is now labeled a cheat.
    It went like this: NASA tech dyno-tested the top three finishers at ACS, which prompted a request for teardown to inspect the cams. The competitor refused and was DQ'd for Sunday's race. It was all quite matter of fact.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    It went like this: NASA tech dyno-tested the top three finishers at ACS, which prompted a request for teardown to inspect the cams. The competitor refused and was DQ'd for Sunday's race. It was all quite matter of fact.
    I don't doubt the local guy cheated. Just saying it is sad he had to cheat to make same power as Jim Drago who didn't cheat. Of course Jim Drago engine costs a lot more than the cheater motor. As cheater motor is easier to make power
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I don't doubt the local guy cheated. Just saying it is sad he had to cheat to make same power as Jim Drago who didn't cheat. Of course Jim Drago engine costs a lot more than the cheater motor. As cheater motor is easier to make power
    The turd in question has had Pro engines. Don't over think it, the guy he raced against probably had a tired pro engine.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    The turd in question has had Pro engines. Don't over think it, the guy he raced against probably had a tired pro engine.
    You lost me. Are you saying he didn't cheat ? Just had a strong pro motor ?
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    I think he's saying the person in question wasn't an underdorg compared to Drago's engines, therefore needing the 'cheat' to level the playing field against the higher budget 'legal' pro motor - they too had a pro-level/budget motor, but were cheating to boot.
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thepass View Post
    I think he's saying the person in question wasn't an underdorg compared to Drago's engines, therefore needing the 'cheat' to level the playing field against the higher budget 'legal' pro motor - they too had a pro-level/budget motor, but were cheating to boot.
    Correct.

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    Didnt know the 1.6s low-mid range TQ was that inferior compared to the rest.
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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    ^^ The torque figure surprised me, too.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    I saw another chart that had acceleration at different speeds for each cars, the 1.6 was the best at high RPM with its lighter weight.

    But yeah, if you make a mistake in a 1.6 and fall out of the power-band you're boned.

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    Youre right, youre probably screwed if you make a mistake in a 1.6 car. What also surprised me is, looking at the low-mid range, the other 2 are practically making more HP than the 1.6 is making TQ. Has he ever posted how a basic 1.6 compares to a pro 1.6/1.8/99...?
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