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Thread: Punt at WSIR with NASA

  1. #21
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    He should have left more room.

  2. #22
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    He should have left more room.
    He who?

  3. #23
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    still no video from the other car?
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    He who?
    Sorry -- camera car being passed. Passing car had no room to leave.

    I think the passing car had a better exit off of T9 and had the run to T1. Camera car was already beaten and didn't want to concede to a less-optimal line entering the braking zone to T1. Bernoulli's principle was probably also a factor here -- you can feel a vacuum pull in a kart, so cars are going to be that much more prominent.

  5. #25
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bongo View Post
    Sorry -- camera car being passed. Passing car had no room to leave.

    I think the passing car had a better exit off of T9 and had the run to T1. Camera car was already beaten and didn't want to concede to a less-optimal line entering the braking zone to T1. Bernoulli's principle was probably also a factor here -- you can feel a vacuum pull in a kart, so cars are going to be that much more prominent.
    I don't know how anyone is coming to such staunch opinions with a completely washed out video and really crappy still pictures. Better photos and pictures are needed for at least me to make what I feel is a decent call on this incident. Video from the second car or a chasing car would help a lot. What I have viewed I categorize as worthless to render an informed decision.
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  6. #26
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    I don't know how anyone is coming to such staunch opinions with a completely washed out video and really crappy still pictures. Better photos and pictures are needed for at least me to make what I feel is a decent call on this incident. Video from the second car or a chasing car would help a lot. What I have viewed I categorize as worthless to render an informed decision.
    It's hard to see much of anything, but I think we have enough. We know the location of the cars relative to each other at the point of contact. We know that NASA's rules expect the leading car to dictate the line. The only argument I see that the camera car could make is the Figure 8 example, which even states "it's up to the Race Director to make a determination".

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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Looks like racing incident to me. The rolling car looks like he could have backed out if he thought he was getting pinched. Passer has responsibility to pass safely. You force the issue when you have the advantage. I don't get the drift to the right thing. That's the line out of T9 to set up for T1. The driver is driving a predictable known line. An outside pass going into T1 is low percentage unless it is complete well before the braking zone. But video is lame and I'm tired.
    I have to agree. The only way you would want to make an outside pass going into 1 is if you know you would be long gone before braking and turnin. The other reason to try pass there, just to apply pressure and screw with the other guys head, hope you can cause a mistake.
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  8. #28
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    I think there is a cultural difference between SCCA and NASA on contact that applies here.

    The short short version of SCCA's rules is "blame the passing car"

    the short short version of NASA's rules is "blame the trailing car"

    Sometimes the passing car is the trailing car, sometimes it's not.

  9. #29
    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but how exactly does one pass from the front?

    Steve
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  10. #30
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SteveLevin View Post
    I know I'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but how exactly does one pass from the front?

    Steve
    The point where the passing car's nose hasn't passed the front bumper of the other car is the trailing car...until the passing car's nose passes the front bumper of the car being passed, he shall be known as the trailing car. :P
    Last edited by Pure EvoIX; 03-24-2016 at 02:49 PM.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Reeks of all the controversy of a "Porsche chop" incident.

  12. #32
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Reeks of all the controversy of a "Porsche chop" incident.
    Laguna Seca?

  13. #33
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    There should be no reason for anybody to turn another car into the wall on a straight.

    Quote Originally Posted by Terrasmak View Post
    I have to agree. The only way you would want to make an outside pass going into 1 is if you know you would be long gone before braking and turnin. The other reason to try pass there, just to apply pressure and screw with the other guys head, hope you can cause a mistake.
    Looks as though the pass would have been complete before T1 braking zone.

    You can see both cars dancing in the wind. (it was very windy).

    I'm with Oli, Hard to make a judgment with crap video. (though, I'm sure, these may not be all the video that the race official has).
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    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  14. #34
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    There should be no reason for anybody to turn another car into the wall on a straight.


    Looks as though the pass would have been complete before T1 braking zone.
    And even if it wasn't it can still work if you can hang on until turn 2.
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  15. #35
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    And even if it wasn't it can still work if you can hang on until turn 2.
    True, there is plenty of room for 2 wide racing till T3. If you play nice. Then it starts getting a little crowded.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  16. #36
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    facebook post seems to have gone. Maybe he decided to stop being a dick.

  17. #37
    Senior Member ELO168's Avatar
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    Why is he a dick Rob?
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  18. #38
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELO168 View Post
    Why is he a dick Rob?
    Not familiar with the rules enough to know his position was gray at best, rolled another car ON THE STRAIGHT while in the triple digits with front tire to rear, screaming to high heaven that he got screwed when he didn't even try to fill out the contact form correctly.

    Maybe worst of all, making that sort of contact when he has already made an unforced error and is beat.

    This is dickish behavior.
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  19. #39
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    Post incident it's a shame Patris didn't appeal properly *. Not because the appeal has merit, but because this process is available to those who disagree with a decision. Whether it reaffirms or it reverses a decision, process is healthy for the entire club's membership to have this discourse and resolution. Not everyone is going to be happy with the outcome of an appeal, but there's value in the process.

    Appeals also provide the opportunity for cooler heads to prevail. Those involved have time to reflect and "hear" what others are saying. They also have time to formulate a more articulate response and gather evidence. Because letís face it, when youíre either party involved in an incident, it's a mind f--- coming hot off the track and trying to make sense what just happened, much less communicate it intelligibly. Adrenaline and stress are powerful influences.

    Finally, I've known Shawn for many years through NASA events. He has integrity and takes his responsibility seriously to adjudicate fairly. I've seen him dedicate a lot of time + thought to the evidence and the decisions, with care and respect for all parties.


    * NASA has an appeal process in the CCR (17.5). Future reference: There are two routes. 17.5.3.1 is expedient. 17.5.3.2 allows for national review (and more time).

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