View Poll Results: Should "Time Trials" be considered "Racing"?

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  • Yes, Time-Trials should be considered "racing"

    20 43.48%
  • No, only W2W is considered "racing"

    26 56.52%
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Thread: Poll: Should "Time Trials" be considered "Racing"?

  1. #1
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Telemetry Poll: Should "Time Trials" be considered "Racing"?

    So after a short debate with Uncle Rich, I've decided to post a poll because I am very curious to see what TrackHQ members consider "racing."

    Uncle Rich claims that only W2W should be considered racing, and he proudly sits on top of this pyramid:



    Excerpt:

    The Wheel-to-Wheel racers are at the top of the pyramid. They have big heads, big egos, they think they are cool, and they can be tremendously condescending. Some even have the gall to have their own website touting their latest "racing adventures".

    Autocrossers are viewed as crossdressers who think that danger and excitement is narrowly missing a plastic safety cone by two inches at 35 mph, and live by a rule book about their car specs that is bigger than the Bible.

    Time trialers are viewed as chumps that can't figure out how to control their car well enough to maneuver in between two other cars at 100 mph in a turn without causing a three car wreck. For it is only the Wheel-To-Wheel racer that put their car within inches of an apex at 110 mph, can brake within inches of their target braking point at 140 mph at the last possible instant without locking up the brakes into ABS or flat spotting tires, that can be within inches of another car's door going into a 100+ mph turn and fighting for position on the pavement, and can control understeer or oversteer with the pedal to the metal coming out of an apex and using the last inch of pavement exiting out of a turn to keep the car from spinning off into the dirt or into surrounding cement walls.
    HOWEVER, some would argue that Time Trialing should be considering "racing."

    The logic goes something like this: Time-Trial drivers race against the clock. Other drivers in class also race against the clock. Therefore, drivers in class are racing each other. In conclusion, Time-Trialing should be considered "racing."

    Established series that fall under the Time-Trial Categories:

    -SCCA Solo
    -SCCA Rallycross
    -SCCA ProSolo
    -NASA-X

    -Redline Time Attack
    -Super Lap Battle
    -S2K/Miata/Corvette Challenge

    -SCCA Time Trials
    -NASA Time Trials

    -World Rally Championship (WRC)
    -Other established rally series

    -Probably plenty of others...

    So the ultimate question: should these established series be considered "racing" or only W2W should be considered "racing"?

    Cast your vote and feel free to comment!

    Note: HPDE should NEVER be considered "racing" and anyone that does is ghey.
    Last edited by 600RR_Rocket; 05-15-2009 at 10:28 AM.

  2. #2
    Member Tarmac Junkie's Avatar
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    Imo, only w2w is "racing". Time trial, time attack, auto cross, rally, I consider all those to be competition. Racing is who finishes first. All the others has to do with time to determine who is the winner.
    John Lindeman
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  3. #3
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    these are also racing against time.

    Baja 1000
    Paris - Dakar
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
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  4. #4
    Senior Member Caoboy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tarmac Junkie View Post
    Imo, only w2w is "racing". Time trial, time attack, auto cross, rally, I consider all those to be competition. Racing is who finishes first. All the others has to do with time to determine who is the winner.
    +1

  5. #5
    Racepar Engineering racepar1's Avatar
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    Back in the days of scca solo1 you could almost consider time trials racing (still a bit of a stretch), but none of this redline stuff should be. NASA tt is close, but not close enough. IMO only W2W is truly racing. I would consider rally racing though. The only reason that those guys aren't competing head to head is because the roads they run on are too narrow for that.

  6. #6
    Corners > Straights JDMxDB8's Avatar
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    W2W is truly racing.

  7. #7
    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    Yes, I consider WRC, Dakar, Baja, or even pike's peak racing. But i dunno about AutoX or TA (unless its at the Ring ). I have no idea where my logic is on this one.

  8. #8
    Professor Chaos thefrush's Avatar
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    What ever happened to 'racing the clock?'
    "The crashes people remember, but drivers remember the near misses" -Mario Andretti

  9. #9
    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 600RR_Rocket View Post
    So after a short debate with Uncle Rich, I've decided to post a poll because I am very curious to see what TrackHQ members consider "racing."

    Uncle Rich claims that only W2W should be considered racing, and he proudly sits on top of this pyramid:



    Excerpt:



    HOWEVER, some would argue that Time Trialing should be considering "racing."

    The logic goes something like this: Time-Trial drivers race against the clock. Other drivers in class also race against the clock. Therefore, drivers in class are racing each other. In conclusion, Time-Trialing should be considered "racing."

    Established series that fall under the Time-Trial Categories:

    -SCCA Solo
    -SCCA Rallycross
    -SCCA ProSolo
    -NASA-X

    -Redline Time Attack
    -Super Lap Battle
    -S2K/Miata/Corvette Challenge

    -SCCA Time Trials
    -NASA Time Trials

    -World Rally Championship (WRC)
    -Other established rally series

    -Probably plenty of others...

    So the ultimate question: should these established series be considered "racing" or only W2W should be considered "racing"?

    Cast your vote and feel free to comment!

    Note: HPDE should NEVER be considered "racing" and anyone that does is ghey.
    Your pyramid was close but I fixed it:


  10. #10
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I think they're all racing but I will put the W2W guys at the top of the coolness pyramid. Although the WRC folks are pretty bad a$$.

    e

  11. #11
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post
    Your pyramid was close but I fixed it:


  12. #12

  13. #13
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post


    Lookin' forward to Saturday dude.
    Umm...for the unknowing TrackHQ member, that made it sound like we are going on a date on Sat or something. Might as well include your name in that circle...

  14. #14
    FIA WTCC/Formula D Driver MiataCharles_Hong_Kong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post


    Lookin' forward to Saturday dude.
    haha, yeah.

  15. #15
    What's Traction Control? 600RR_Rocket's Avatar
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    It's a threesome!

    Ok, back on topic people!

  16. #16
    Senior Member mlk_f1's Avatar
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    HA didn't know you switch from counter strike to mario kart. lol Do you still have room for one more? Each of you guys need to down a shot in the parking lot b4 going in.

  17. #17
    LongWinded National Champ Bueller's Avatar
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    I love that pyramid. Im a rookie racer, and i came from NASA's TT series so i think i can give a genuine perspective. You can read all about how i got into racing on my website: http://www.ednazarian.com (im ghey for having my own website and for that plug).

    If it wasnt for NASAs TT series, i probably would not be racing today, so i have to give credit to NASA for providing that series. Yes, time trials is a race against time, and so are those time attack events, but they are not "real" w2w/d2d racing. Time trials are just time trials, time attacks are just time attacks, autox is just autox, hpde's are just hpde's and so on.

    If anything, i would say that NASAs TT series gives you a more genuine experience towards racing vs those time attacks. NASA TT sessions are grid based on lap times, and everyone goes out in 1 big group. Beyond that, they are 20min sessions. Depending on what class cars are on track, you will potentially hit traffic after your 3rd lap, also depending on where you grid up. So at some point you are going to be forced to pass cars safely.

    Time attacks on the other hand are at most 3 hot laps. And youre sent out in like 10 sec intervals? I dont recall the exact time. Beyond that, you get sent out in small groups.

    In the end, yes, time trials, time attacks, autox events are all races against the clock. But they are nothing more than what theyre called, ie time trial, time attack, autox. "Real" racing is w2w/d2d against other cars to see who crosses the finish line first.
    Team Rambling Warrior Poet


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  18. #18
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Race ≠ Rally

    Paris- Dakar Rally
    World Rally Championship
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  19. #19
    KINOD time attack kenchi's Avatar
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    time trial = qualifying?

  20. #20
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Race ≠ Rally

    Paris- Dakar Rally
    World Rally Championship
    But there are also rallies that are little more than a Sunday drive. I think WRC is more of a race than a Sunday drive.

    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/race

    e
    Last edited by Red_5; 05-15-2009 at 06:22 PM.

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