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Thread: Not the best place to stop for a red flag

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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I hate to judge the actions of others especially without knowing what was going on in front of the camera car.
    Unfortunately there was plenty of room ahead of him. Absolutely no reason to come to a stop there.

    ahead.jpg

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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    Unfortunately there was plenty of room ahead of him. Absolutely no reason to come to a stop there.

    Attachment 4937
    LMAO, good one. I was trying to make the video play. lol.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    1.jpg2.jpg

    total of 8 cars. (at least 6 of them were parked after the crest..
    5 cars parked on the right side of the track. camera car, yellow car behind the camera car, and the car that crashed into the back of camera car....
    in 2nd picture, there is a 3rd car ? this is not the same yellow car that was directly behind the camera car. which was shown getting the hell out of Dodge....
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 09-12-2012 at 03:35 PM.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    3.jpg
    trying to make out the helmet's orientation ?
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Wow, this is getting uglier by the post. I hope I never use such poor judgement on the track . . .
    rhouck likes this.
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    trying to make out the helmet's orientation ?
    Judging by the car's position and trajectory, it looks like down and to the right

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    you can't count on corner worker. what do you do on a Buttonwillow/WSIR test day ? or some of events with minimal corner workers ? or if Corner worker simply is attending to another situation ?

    common sense just tells you not to park in the MIDDLE of a track after a blinding crest.
    +1. I have seen corner workers make numerous mistakes in races and open track days. If there is a flag out, obey it. But don't assume that corner workers are perfect, because they aren't.
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    ^i would agree with that to a point but they are our only eyes on the course in some spots so we have to go with what they give us

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    Senior Member azngotmilk's Avatar
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    i blame the weather-man for this

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    Quote Originally Posted by azngotmilk View Post
    i blame the weather-man for this
    Putz!!!
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    Senior Member vantagesc's Avatar
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    I never understood a red flag to mean that you must come to a complete stop immediately upon first seeing it (correct me if I'm wrong). Chances are that you'll be going way faster than any emergency vehicle coming from behind, so there's time to find a safe place to pullover. All of those other drivers shouldn't have felt compelled to stop behind the lead driver either.

    Ouch!
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post
    I never understood a red flag to mean that you must come to a complete stop immediately upon first seeing it (correct me if I'm wrong). Chances are that you'll be going way faster than any emergency vehicle coming from behind, so there's time to find a safe place to pullover. All of those other drivers shouldn't have felt compelled to stop behind the lead driver either.

    Ouch!
    +1, it means get out of the way of emergency vehicles... it definitely doesn't mean park 3 across on the track.....

    not sure why, but this video really ticks me off.....
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 09-13-2012 at 05:58 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post
    I never understood a red flag to mean that you must come to a complete stop immediately upon first seeing it (correct me if I'm wrong). Chances are that you'll be going way faster than any emergency vehicle coming from behind, so there's time to find a safe place to pullover. All of those other drivers shouldn't have felt compelled to stop behind the lead driver either.

    Ouch!
    Different race/track day orgainzations have different meanings for the Red Flag, and you need to listen in the driver's meeting to find out what to do. Most organizations say Red Flag means come to a complete stop in a safe manner, watching your mirrors in case the driver behind you doesn't see the Red Flag, don't slam on your brakes, and come to a complete stop off line in a place that is not blind to the drivers behind you. Other organizations say all that, but don't come to a complete stop until you are at a place on the track where you can see instructions given by the nearest flagging station. Other organizations say slow down, and drive around the track to start/finish on the track at stop there off line. Others say drive carefully to track exit and stop in the hot pit. I have seen every one of these at one time or another in the past 9 years.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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  14. #34
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Different race/track day orgainzations have different meanings for the Red Flag, and you need to listen in the driver's meeting to find out what to do. Most organizations say Red Flag means come to a complete stop in a safe manner, watching your mirrors in case the driver behind you doesn't see the Red Flag, don't slam on your brakes, and come to a complete stop off line in a place that is not blind to the drivers behind you. Other organizations say all that, but don't come to a complete stop until you are at a place on the track where you can see instructions given by the nearest flagging station. Other organizations say slow down, and drive around the track to start/finish on the track at stop there off line. Others say drive carefully to track exit and stop in the hot pit. I have seen every one of these at one time or another in the past 9 years.
    yes, they all say it a little different. but the purpose of a red flag is not to impede an emergency vehicle.....I doubt those huge emergency vehicle is gonna get through the 3 parked across Phil's Hill.
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    Senior Member rhouck's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vantagesc View Post
    All of those other drivers shouldn't have felt compelled to stop behind the lead driver either.
    Their "logic" was as follows:

    I was 4th of 6 in the pack. We were unable to stop before the flag station. Mark, in the camera car, (green #35, 3rd in the pack) and I swung to the left as the leaders were rapidly braking. The 2 lead cars stopped on the right. Since we weren't supposed to change positions and we were too far forward to get behind the 2 lead cars, Mark and I stopped on the left.
    So the blind adherence to a rule prohibiting illegal passing (as if they couldn't have figured out the previous running order once the red flag situation was passed...) was the apparent reason they stopped where they did. Obviously the lead cars shouldn't have stopped where they did either, but a whole chain reaction of bad choices.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    yes, they all say it a little different. but the purpose of a red flag is not to impede an emergency vehicle.....I doubt those huge emergency vehicle is gonna get through the 3 parked across Phil's Hill.
    Those huge emergency vehicles could crush the 3-wide and keep going, if they were Miatas . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhouck View Post
    So the blind adherence to a rule prohibiting illegal passing (as if they couldn't have figured out the previous running order once the red flag situation was passed...) was the apparent reason they stopped where they did. Obviously the lead cars shouldn't have stopped where they did either, but a whole chain reaction of bad choices.
    +1. This is the lowest level of amatuer car racing. No prize money. No trophy girls. No glory, publicity, or chances for a professional driving future. Just a cheezy $2 trophy and bragging rights with your buddies. So they don't want to break a rule about changing positions that might get them DQed in the race, and instead stop in a blind spot that clearly was the cause of the crash and might have caused serious injury, possibly even death.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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  18. #38
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    The more i watch this video, the angrier I get as well. Its because it shouldn't have happened in the first place. Yeah

    At least no one died or lost limbs. Lesson learned. Good judgement comes from experience. Experience come from bad judgement. They should show this at every driver's meeting.
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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Wow, what the **** was going on here? Lucky not more carnage occurred. Any word on the drivers involved condition?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    yes, they all say it a little different. but the purpose of a red flag is not to impede an emergency vehicle.....I doubt those huge emergency vehicle is gonna get through the 3 parked across Phil's Hill.
    Nope it is not. Richard posted the correct answer. Red Flag for all organizations means extreme danger session has been stopped. Come to a controled and safe stop at a position designated by the driver's meeting. Most of the time that is within visual range of a corner station which would mean those drivers should have lined up way off phil hill toward the sweeper turn corner station. sometimes Red means to come into hot pits or line up offline start finish. It never means go to the cold pits session over.

    a white flag is a slow moving vehicle possibly an ambulance use caution.

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