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Thread: Not the best place to stop for a red flag

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Default Not the best place to stop for a red flag


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    Yikes! But I didn't see a red flag. I know that yellow open wheel car in the rearview camera for most of the video. I have a pic of him behind my FM at Buttonwillow from May 2012.
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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    :-( did someone just die?

    On a serious note, it didn't look like the corner worker had the red flag out. He should have been waving it like mad.

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    Senior Member psychoazn's Avatar
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    I didn't see a red flag either, but why the fark would anyone ever stop at the back of a CREST?

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    Sir flink
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    Look like the corner worker chose that moment to point the flag straight at the oncoming car, so he couldn't see it.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    the point for red flag, is to move "out of the fuc*ing way" for emergency vehicles....
    not parked 3 across the track. even Spec Miata don't go 3 wide going into Phil's Hill.

    if you paused frame after the camera car spins. there are a total of 6 cars parked after hill crest.... what the hell were all 6 drivers thinking ?
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 09-11-2012 at 09:23 PM.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I laughed out loud when the yellow car finally came to its senses after the crash, and moved right away....
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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    the point for red flag, is to move "out of the fuc*ing way" for safety vehicle....
    not parked 3 across the track. even Spec Miata don't go 3 wide going into Phil's Hill.

    if you paused frame after the camera car spins. there are a total of 6 cars parked after hill crest.... what the hell were all 6 drivers thinking ?
    Mind boggling. Was that scca or nasa or...? Lots of Darwin award potential out there.
    Last edited by redtopz; 09-11-2012 at 09:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    Mind boggling. Was that scca or nasa or...? Lots of Darwin award potential out there.
    VARA probably? Vintage racers. Racers of a certain vintage as well no doubt.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    it is VARA, this is what he posted on Youtube:



    This short video clip illustrates why it is important to pay attention during driver's school and driver meetings. Listen to your instructors!!! Listen to the Chief Steward!!!

    This incident occured during the 2012 VARA Octoberfest held at Buttonwillow Raceway Park in Buttonwillow, Ca.

    Camera is a GoPro Hero HD, attached to the roll bar of my 1968 Lotus 51 Formula Ford.

    The driver that ran into us suffered only a compound fracture of his right arm. He was lucky. It could have been ALOT (!!!) worse.
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    VARA. Can't be NASA, they don't have open wheel classes, especially for vintage race cars like that. SCCA allows cars like that to race, but this was VARA, according to others here. BTW, the video reminds me how much Buttonwillow sucks.
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    Senior Member azngotmilk's Avatar
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    wow... i guess the guy with the camera learned the hard way not to completely stop after a crest

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    I was not at the event, but I know the event chair for the vara race there was one positive that came out is that the replacement ambulance was only 15 mins away...

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    6 fails i see.

    #1 Corner worker didnt display 100% upright the red flag to oncoming drivers properly. They need a refresher/class on how to properly display flags. Life and death.
    #2 Why the hell did all the cars ahead of camera car stop basically in between the bottom of lost hills and middle of lost hills. It is a blind crest. No one can see anything from behind the hill. At least they stopped over on the right side.
    #3 Why was that car flying through the turn soo fast that it lost control. Did he not just see 4 cars go over the hill 8s earlier, but not reappear after the hill. Isnt that a big clue? Why didn't he slow down to the corner worker pointing/"displaying" some sort of flag. I'm sure he couldn't tell if it red blue yellow black.
    #4 Why is everyone stopping all over the damn track. So dumb...
    #5 Idiot corner worker again. He sees everyone stopped all over the shop on the other side of the hill and know its blind. WHY WASNT HE FURIOUSLY WAVING THE RED FLAG and be super animated at the incoming car!!!! For sure he knew that there was a gonna be a big accident if that car came flying through there at speed. Idiot!!
    #6 Camera car was just in a really really bad spot on the outside of a blind turn. Not to mention the blind hill again and again, which was dumb idea in first place.
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    This guy is so lucky...within 2-3inches.
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    This is painful to watch... Ouch!!!
    All kinds of bad right there.
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I hate to judge the actions of others especially without knowing what was going on in front of the camera car. Obviously a bad place to stop but that corner worker sucked. There's no reason that car should have come over the hill into that without warning. If everyone had stopped on the same side of the blind crest, the collision most likely would have been avoided. Lot's of fail for sure.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I hate to judge the actions of others especially without knowing what was going on in front of the camera car. Obviously a bad place to stop but that corner worker sucked. There's no reason that car should have come over the hill into that without warning. If everyone had stopped on the same side of the blind crest, the collision most likely would have been avoided. Lot's of fail for sure.
    you can't count on corner worker. what do you do on a Buttonwillow/WSIR test day ? or some of events with minimal corner workers ? or if Corner worker simply is attending to another situation ?

    common sense just tells you not to park in the MIDDLE of a track after a blinding crest.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    me and Emilio talks about this kind of stuff all the time, it is always a combination of fail that leads to an accident. if only one of the fail can be avoided, you wouldn't have it.

    1. corner worker not waving the flag like crazy
    2. if the red car (one that crashed) had looked far ahead, probably would of saw a train of cars stopped after Phil's Hill.
    3. if the yellow car (one just behind the camera) stopped a little earlier, on top of the hill. red car would of saw it.
    4. if the white car (behind camera car), did not park in the MIDDLE of the road, red car would of probably able to take the regular line and miss everybody.
    5. if the camera car did not park in the MIDDLE of the road.
    6. if the yellow car had parked anywhere else, red car would of been able to go off track and miss everybody.

    combinations of fails caused the accident. I blame corner worker, red car, camera car, white and yellow car drivers. all fail.
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    i know from driving buttonwillow multiple times that the first thing i do is look at that flag station just after the kink before you brake for phil hill,if hes got a yellow flag in his hand then ill use caution,if hes waving it wildly ill definately slow a lot,if hes got a red flag in his hand im gonna park it on the top of the hill so people can see me and see i have stopped,im not gonna go over that hill at all

    To me the onus is on the flag worker there but there were a lot of parked cars in weird spots in that vid,as a driver things get a little weird sometimes at some hpde events with the lack of driving experience,you would think things would be a little more organized with a vintage racer group but common sense has to prevail hopefully

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