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Thread: New print ad from "The big 3"

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Default New print ad from "The big 3"


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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Congress should have let them go bankrupt.

    Then the bankruptcy court could tear-up all their contracts, especially those ridiculous ones with the unions, so they can get on a competitive cost basis with the other makes.

    I own three Chevrolets and two Fords and I think they are all great cars. They are each burdened by a $3,000-$4,000 union pension legacy.

    My 3500 Duramax LTZ, Suburban and Z06 are testatment to the fine cars they make. The ZR1 and the CTS-V are two more fine examples.


    Oli

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Congress should have let them go bankrupt.

    Then the bankruptcy court could tear-up all their contracts, especially those ridiculous ones with the unions, so they can get on a competitive cost basis with the other makes.

    Oli
    I agree, I'm not clear on why GM et al wouldn't actually WANT this to happen so they can put themselves in a competitive position. They must know that as long as their legacy union arrangements exist they can never compete with the pesky foreigners.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Why give $700 Billion to the Banks, and begrudge the Big 3 Automakers $34 Billion or $15 Billion or whatever?

    Let the whole economy go down in flames. After all we Republicans don't believe in regulation. Free market economy all the way. Spend all the money on the stupid war and let the country go to hell in a handbasket. After all, as long as Halliburton and KBR get rich(er), who cares?
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Corners > Straights JDMxDB8's Avatar
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    I don't think I'll ever own an American car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JDMxDB8 View Post
    I don't think I'll ever own an American car.
    The only American car I ever owned was a 1984 Camaro, purchased new. What a piece of crap.

    I admit that a Corvette Z06 is a great car, but its the exception that proves the rule.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Corners > Straights JDMxDB8's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    The only American car I ever owned was a 1984 Camaro, purchased new. What a piece of crap.

    I admit that a Corvette Z06 is a great car, but its the exception that proves the rule.
    My dad has that same generation Camaro. It was his very first car. He told me it was pretty ****ty. He never owned an American car ever again.

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    Senior Member julian's Avatar
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    well, the american big 3 put out crappy product in the 80's and 90's. basically turned off an entire generation of car buyers which helped put them in the situation they are in today.

    i would buy a ford or chevy now a days though... but not so much chrysler. i prefer either over a german car or a toyota. but i guess i'm biased since i used to work for ford. ha!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    Congress should have let them go bankrupt.

    Then the bankruptcy court could tear-up all their contracts, especially those ridiculous ones with the unions, so they can get on a competitive cost basis with the other makes.

    I own three Chevrolets and two Fords and I think they are all great cars. They are each burdened by a $3,000-$4,000 union pension legacy.

    My 3500 Duramax LTZ, Suburban and Z06 are testatment to the fine cars they make. The ZR1 and the CTS-V are two more fine examples.


    Oli
    I agree they should have let them go bankrupt. They'll get their chance to make it right when they are back next year asking for double.

    I, too, love our Chevrolets. Buy 'em up. They'll be collector's items in five years.

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    I have had one Chrysler and my wife had one before that. I was not a big fan. My nephew has a Dodge truck and it seems pretty good.

    The reason the execs at the Big 3 won't let those firms go bankrupt is because they represent the interest of the shareholders. If those firms go BK, then a lot of different things happen besides getting relief from creditors and union contracts. After the bankruptcy court issues some financial relief they will likely authorize the recapitalization of the firms by diluting the share values of current shareholders.

    The current shareholders will get screwed in this situation and the board of directors and execs are supposed to protect them from that. It could be argued though that taking a haircut in a bankruptcy will finally allow a decent appreciation of the stock price.

    I think RichardEvo with his BK legal background might be more authoritative.

    Right now for the Big 3 it is like going out in a race down 20% on horsepower compared to all the guys you are racing against. Giving them $15B gives them a shot of nitrous for a few months until they run out of cash again and they will be right back where they are now. Until the union induced bleed is stopped they cannot compete. Congress is too dumb to know that... actually they do know... they are just bowing to the union bosses and the union votes.


    Oli

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    If the Big 3 went into Chapter 11, I would expect all of the common stockholders to be wiped out. The bondholders, and possibly some other creditors (banks?) would be given the "new" stock in the restructured company. The union contracts would all be rejected, and the auto workers would have to negotiate whatever they can get. They might be owed damages for what they lost on those contracts, but those claims would be paid out at cents on the dollar like all the other creditors' claims.

    It would be a real mess.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    It would be a real mess.
    Yeah, but those firms would be reborn and compete again. Right now it is just a constant losing battle for them.

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    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    My feeling is that bankruptcy isn't the solution to labor contracts, because in this case -- with such a large and intertwined business -- unhappy and unemployed UAW workers would simply picket and form a union line no one would cross. It would be like British Leyland

    The UAW seems to be recognizing that things must change. Essentially, what we've had to date is a form of profit sharing (where times were good, union contracts became better and better, essentially sharing the wealth) without any downside protection (that is, when things go in the toilet, there's no provision for the contracts to get "worse").

    I have no issues with everyone sharing in the good times; but at the same time, everyone has to realize that means sharing in the bad times as well. With that recognition and new contracts that people can live with (I won't say "be happy with" because let's face it, one can never be happy about getting less), the Big 3 can continue operations and work through this.

    But if they have to fight unions and picket lines...well, that would be a terrible death that will benefit no one.

    Steve

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    If the Big 3 went into Chapter 11, I would expect all of the common stockholders to be wiped out. The bondholders, and possibly some other creditors (banks?) would be given the "new" stock in the restructured company. The union contracts would all be rejected, and the auto workers would have to negotiate whatever they can get. They might be owed damages for what they lost on those contracts, but those claims would be paid out at cents on the dollar like all the other creditors' claims.

    It would be a real mess.
    Isn't it necessary though? Their current situation isn't exactly rosy.

    Love the analogy btw Oli

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