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Thread: ND sightings

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    BRZ comes with mickey mouse tires right?
    I think so. They mentioned the base tire on the ND is "stickier", i.e lower UTQG rating than the BRZ tire.
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    They mention the Miata being "faster everywhere including where it's most important the race track." How could you make an ND a reasonably safe street / track car? I know Moti is building a roll bar but with no factory hardtop and it seems necessary to remove the soft top to install a roll bar, who would buy one for track use? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one as a fun street car that could some day end up with a cage and real safety equipment but the ND doesn't seem like a great option for doing track days.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    They mention the Miata being "faster everywhere including where it's most important the race track." How could you make an ND a reasonably safe street / track car? I know Moti is building a roll bar but with no factory hardtop and it seems necessary to remove the soft top to install a roll bar, who would buy one for track use? Don't get me wrong, I'd love to have one as a fun street car that could some day end up with a cage and real safety equipment but the ND doesn't seem like a great option for doing track days.
    We're having this conversation here today. ND desperately needs a well engineered and built sealed hard top to break through as trackday option like the NA/NB did. Our car will have teh soft top yanked just so I can give Moti the room he needs to build a a proper bar for it. I'll get a waterproof car cover or park it inside until I can get a top made for it. Working on it but how know what we'll come up with or how much it'll cost.
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    The BRZ/FRS comes with Michelin Primacy HP 87W GreenX tires. UTQG treadwear 240. These are the same tires as on the euro Prius 17" option. The following article indicates a 2.3s drop in laptimes with a 200 UTQG tire:

    2013 Scion FR-S Performance Testing With Tire Swap - The Right Tires Make the FR

    Why did they do this? Odd choice of tire for a performance car.
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    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    The lack of a hardtop is either an incredible oversight, a bad decision or the retractable hardtop version was somehow designed to work with a real roll bar.
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    I don't think it's any of the above.
    Mazda went through the trouble of designing and producing them for the NC and proceeded to sell only a handful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    I don't think it's any of the above.
    Mazda went through the trouble of designing and producing them for the NC and proceeded to sell only a handful.
    How did you buy a hardtop for the NC? I built many NCs on the Mazda site over the years and never saw a hardtop come up as an option. I'm guessing the average NC buyer knew nothing about removable hardtops and the Mazda site didn't help that.

    How much effort could it be to add the bits to allow for a hardtop to be mounted?

    If the decision was conscious, I think it was a bad one. Look at the numbers of NAs and NBs that you see racing and doing track days. How many have a factory hardtop? How many of those cars either drove to the track or were driven to the track before the driver upgraded safety equipment and started towing? If a hardtop wasn't available and you had to remove soft top to install a roll bar on my NB, I probably wouldn't be driving a Miata today or I never would have started tracking and racing Miata. Going from a street car to a full blown race car without a few steps in between will hurt overall sales down the road in my opinion.
    Last edited by Red_5; 08-05-2015 at 05:18 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    I don't think it's any of the above.
    Mazda went through the trouble of designing and producing them for the NC and proceeded to sell only a handful.
    This. They were made. Didn't sell.


    I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for Mazda to do it. As a business, we will push hard to get a high quality sealed hard top made for the ND. I'm sure we won't actually sell it as I don't want to deal with warehousing them, paint matching and all the other headaches that comes with selling body panels.
    But having them in the marketplace will increase the number of people buying cars for track use which I can then sell parts to. Same reason we build many of our project cars.
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    Quote Originally Posted by markn View Post
    The BRZ/FRS comes with Michelin Primacy HP 87W GreenX tires. UTQG treadwear 240. These are the same tires as on the euro Prius 17" option. The following article indicates a 2.3s drop in laptimes with a 200 UTQG tire:

    2013 Scion FR-S Performance Testing With Tire Swap - The Right Tires Make the FR

    Why did they do this? Odd choice of tire for a performance car.
    My best guess is to set the limit low so people that don't know what oversteer is (subaru/toyota drivers) can figure it out going more slowly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    How did you buy a hardtop for the NC? I built many NCs on the Mazda site over the years and never saw a hardtop come up as an option. I'm guessing the average NC buyer knew nothing about removable hardtops and the Mazda site didn't help that.

    How much effort could it be to add the bits to allow for a hardtop to be mounted?

    If the decision was conscious, I think it was a bad one. Look at the numbers of NAs and NBs that you see racing and doing track days. How many have a factory hardtop? How many of those cars either drove to the track or were driven to the track before the driver upgraded safety equipment and started towing? If a hardtop wasn't available and you had to remove soft top to install a roll bar on my NB, I probably wouldn't be driving a Miata today or I never would have started tracking and racing Miata. Going from a street car to a full blown race car without a few steps in between will hurt overall sales down the road in my opinion.
    The roll bar I sell for the NC chassis requires converting a soft top car into a removable hard top, pretty sure I have seen more NCs with HT than most people and I can assure you the sales were dismal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    The roll bar I sell for the NC chassis requires converting a soft top car into a removable hard top, pretty sure I have seen more NCs with HT than most people and I can assure you the sales were dismal.
    I understand and believe that the removable hardtop sales were dismal. My point is that I think Mazda US was short sighted by not including them on the website as an option when building the cars - something I never saw. I think that by not allowing for the use of a hardtop Mazda is sending racers and track enthusiasts to other brands. Mazda always touts their racing heritage but not having a hardtop readily available contradicts that. Look at the Conti MX-5s, possibly the most seen Miata racer cars, they all have hardtops. I doubt anyone will want the run the ND in Conti sans hardtop.
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    playboy-mazda-mx-5-cup.jpg

    2008_-_drafting_at_road_america.jpg

    2011-scca-pro-racing-playboy-mazda-mx-5-cup-details-announced-28849_1.jpg

    Your point?

    EDIT to add -
    I'm not arguing with you about wanting a factory HT, I'd love to see one too.
    I just think that when the sales of the NC HT sucked so badly that no one at marketing wants to even hear about it.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 08-05-2015 at 07:16 PM.

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    That's MX-5 cup where they all have the same aero. Conti challenge they race against cars with metal roofs that would have an aerodynamic advantage over the exposed cage ND.

    I also don't think Mazda US really wanted to sell the removable hardtops, which I think was a poor decision. I don't think the MX-5 Cup cars should race without hardtops but that was what Mazda wanted.
    Last edited by Red_5; 08-06-2015 at 05:33 AM.
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    They have a point you know, selling a roadster that looks like a roadster as opposed to a coupe...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    They have a point you know, selling a roadster that looks like a roadster as opposed to a coupe...
    Nobody actually watches MX-5 cup so who cares? If they had pics of the race car with a hardtop maybe they would have sold more hardtops. Everyone knows the Miata is a convertible. Hell most people don't even know the Miata is still being made at least before ND commercials.
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    You're giving people too much credit.
    I bet half of the population doesn't even know it's RWD..

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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    That's MX-5 cup where they all have the same aero. Conti challenge they race cars with metal roofs and would have an aerodynamic advantage over the exposed cage ND.

    I also don't think Mazda US really wanted to sell the removable hardtops, which I think was a poor decision. I don't think the MX-5 Cup cars should race without hardtops but that was what Mazda wanted.
    We have several customers in the Conti challenge, they all run removable hardtops. It's not that the tops don't exist - they do, the demand just wasn't there on a large scale. I agree with your point about the shortsightedness of not making the factory-backed option on the NC more visibly available to casual potential buyers, but demand being the key word - if there had been real demand for them - they would have sold.

    Maybe my recollection is hazy, but AFAIK Mazda HAS said they will be working on a RHT on the ND, but said straight up that it has no ETA. Can't remember where I heard/saw that right now..

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    That's impressive considering San Diego has best autocrossers in the country
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    Why doesn't Mazda just make a coupe version of the Miata? Like Porsche's Boxster and Cayman, for example . . .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    Why doesn't Mazda just make a coupe version of the Miata? Like Porsche's Boxster and Cayman, for example . . .
    On the NC there was a power retractable hardtop option that sort of takes care of the coupe idea. The ND is supposed to have a retractable hardtop option by next year but it will most likely get in the way of installing a rollbar. The Miata doesn't make enough money to justify all of the costs associated with building a coupe too.
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