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Thread: NASA western states championships 2016

  1. #21
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    Something needs to happen at Buttonwillow about the dust clouds. To complicate things further, should dust clouds by themselves be reason for a yellow? In my opinion yes. This weekend was very dangerous and it is a minor blessing from the Olympian Gods that many hundreds of thousands of dollars in cars were not wrecked. I don't usually post video , but I will shortly to show the battle Brett and I had plus a little taste of the dust clouds. The video I post is minor in regards to the clouds. But still demonstrates the problem.

    I am in serious doubt if I will ever do such a large event at Buttonwillow again if the dust cloud thing doesn't improve. There were some cars that had as many as 5 4-offs. This is unacceptable and put us in back of him at risk.

    Ideas;

    1. Pave runoffs. Downside, drivers will use the runoff. Plus we can't control the track admin and make them do this.
    2. K rails at certain corners. I like this idea. Cheaper than paving and you don't have to worry about drivers using run off.
    3. 1st 4 off you get a furled black. 2nd 4-off you get a drive through. I like this idea too, mainly because the organizations can implement and control it without buy in from the track.

    I had my share of offs. I had a session with 2. I would have gladly accepted a drive through. In the video I post later you will see a full off. It wasn't because I made a mistake though. IT WAS BECAUSE I COULDNT SEE THE FING TRACK. Very dangerous.
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  2. #22
    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
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    4. Plant a claymore just off track somewhere...but let everyone guess which corner.

    Steve

  3. #23
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I think waving yellow for a dust cloud is a great start. Or even treating dust clouds as a waving yellow - no passing until clear of the cloud/incident.
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  4. #24
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Don't mandate yellows for all dust clouds, that helps me guess whether there is a car inside it.

  5. #25
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    this would work....

    fan1.jpg
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 10-18-2016 at 01:48 PM.
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  6. #26
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    Dust cloud at ~1:50, albeit a minor one compared to several others I drove through earlier Friday/Saturday. Sunday's traffic was much cleaner, even with the Mad Max:Fury Road storm blowing through.





    I'll have some race footage ready soon too.
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  7. #27
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz14 View Post
    Something needs to happen at Buttonwillow about the dust clouds. To complicate things further, should dust clouds by themselves be reason for a yellow?

    I had my share of offs. I had a session with 2. I would have gladly accepted a drive through. In the video I post later you will see a full off. It wasn't because I made a mistake though. IT WAS BECAUSE I COULDNT SEE THE FING TRACK. Very dangerous.
    I think NASA used to be like SCCA which still has a single national shootout for class champion. NASA now has split that into east/west. But still those are supposed to be the highest level of amateur racing like the step before being a pro. It takes 2 things to be a consistent champion, big money and big cahones. I'm not one of those people but love to play in the midpack. That's the point of minimum effort maximum return for me. I will err on the side of caution and not play "days of thunder". Respectfully,however, I think dust clouds at BRP at the championship level is, "if you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
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  8. #28
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    "If you can't run with the big dogs, stay on the porch!"
    Put another chair out on your porch. I am heading over there now....
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  9. #29
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    I guess I'm a puppy and will be sitting on the porch watching all the other pu$$ies racing with Hans and harnesses.

  10. #30
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    K rails? I am speechless.
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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Here's my video from Sunday. Dust clouds, bump drafting into turns, swapping positions, offs. It's all there.


  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    K rails? I am speechless.
    ARMCOs then?

  13. #33
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    Ok , here is my mistake riddled run.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WVBlzMoV1Ow

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  14. #34
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz14 View Post
    I guess I'm a puppy and will be sitting on the porch watching all the other pu$$ies racing with Hans and harnesses.
    I think it all just has to be put in context. For example a couple years ago I was getting points so I could qualify for my 1st Runoffs. We were at Indie motorsports park for a Majors race and a few of us told the chief stewart that we should have the green flag on the back straight not the front straight because of the number of cars and the compression into the 1st turn increased the danger of contact. The Chief said we were the best of the best amateur racer and to suck it up. No change would be made. Sure enough a guy hits the wall and gets airlifted to the hospital. In the following group races we were more careful and had many off track excursions but avoided injury. Something just happens at Runoffs where competition and aggression runs off the scale compared to regular qualifying Majors races. Sure enough at Laguna Seca Runoffs at the hairpin compression just about every race of over 25 races for class champion resulted in carnage. The chief Stewart was right. We needed those riskier portions of Majors races like Indie to deal with the mayhem that is the Runoffs. I have done 3 Runoffs so far with the last one last month in Ohio resulting in an intentional waiting stationary on track and "drilling" of another competitor with his car to take the guy out! Nothing surprises me anymore and be prepared for anything. A dust cloud while distracting, is the least of my worries (at that level).
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  15. #35
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    Distracting? That is an understatement. It isn't distracting. It is dangerous. It is potentially very expensive. Look, I had a ton of fun. Probably more than anyone. But I don't need to plow blindly through clouds in order to have balls. That doesn't prove what you have, but might demonstrate what one is lacking. In your example above you had the benefit of your vision. Try it blindfolded and then let's talk.
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  16. #36
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    I agree with James here, calling those hanging dust clouds a distraction is an enormous understatement. If the Mustang in front of Oli had stayed to the right and the Corvette who shoots past Oli goes left, there's a very different outcome. Fortunately the Mustang and Oli were smart and slowed down and luckily it worked out for the other Corvette and the sitting duck.
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  17. #37
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    BRP is the CalClub home track which I am a member. So I do understand the clouds. I've made a few too. But the answer is so simple, just slowed down for one's visual comfort level. Someone else either sees it differently and is willing to take risk. That risk is no different than when one navigates traffic, late brakes a competitor, or fails to slow when searching for the debris that a debris flag indicates. The sport is all about relative risks and taking them. There will always be the next avoidable risk to mitigate.
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  18. #38
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    Absolutely wrong. The answer is not just slow down. Take a look at lap 2 of my posted video where I am following cars into cotton corners when the guy in front goes off. There was no slowing down. There was no seeing. There was nothing for me to do but let the car go off and create even more clouds for the people following me. I understand your point though of relative risk. Now you are talking. I am suggesting some sort of measure to reduce that risk is all. The answer I think is to get people (including me) to bring it a bit more inside the envelope. Thereby limiting the clouds and improving relative risk. That's it. I am suggesting nothing different than what is done in scca driving school. You toss it off and you begin to get black flags and come in and have a chat with a steward. I'm not saying that people with comp licenses need to be berated by stewards. I'm saying that after maybe two dirt excursions a drive through might bring a guy back into the wnvelope. 5 4-offs is too many regardless of the track or whether they create clouds.

  19. #39
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    But the answer is so simple, just slowed down for one's visual comfort level. Someone else either sees it differently or is willing to take risk.
    FTFY

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    That risk is no different than when one navigates traffic, late brakes a competitor, or fails to slow when searching for the debris that a debris flag indicates. The sport is all about relative risks and taking them. There will always be the next avoidable risk to mitigate.
    I know you're a card carrying member of the Corvette mafia but charging into a dust cloud while possibly passing under yellow is not the same as navigating traffic you can actually see.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I am gonna call (like a boss) that Chuck passed Oli under yellow.....so I declare Oli the ST2 winner
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