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Thread: NASA Transparency (Results modifications)

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    Default NASA Transparency (Results modifications)

    Does NASA have a location where they explain (even briefly) where they may have made changes between Preliminary Results and Final Results? In the 2017 Western Championships - in the SM Class, for example, the Preliminary Results winner was moved from 1st to 2nd place. Additionally noticed that the 7th place finisher got moved from 7th to 9th. Was just wanting to know if there's an explanation of the infractions/penalties that were imposed that caused these changes (and potentially others). Anyone know.... or is that kind of stuff hush-hush?

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    As long as we're on the topic of transparency, what is the rule/practice of sharing mandated dyno test numbers? On the Friday on the Western State Championship, several cars were directed over to the dyno. Many drivers and owners were around the dyno and helping to get the cars set-up, etc. However, when the testing began, everyone but NASA officials were asked to leave the area. No problem. We were one of the cars tested and I can say that we were not even given the test results of our own car. Fair enough. We went to dinner and returned later and a fellow competitor (also who got tested) told me our testing results as well as his own. Obviously, someone from NASA had shared our results (or the guy was lying to us). So what is the policy/practice? Do you get to see you own numbers and/or see your own test sheets? Are you allowed to ask the resuilts of your competitors? Are the results posted somewhere? I'd vote for total transparency (publish everything!) but I would really like consistency. I have to admit being a little miffed that I didn't see our dyno sheet but allegedly our competitors had. Maybe I'm the idiot and all of this is available somewhere?

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    You may have better luck posting these questions on the NASA forum at nasaforums.com site.

    I know the pole sitter, who won on track, was deemed to have jumped the start and penalized one position so 1st and 2nd places were swapped. I do not know about the 7-9th situation. The dyno results were posted along with the timing sheets at the club house. Not sure when they were posted but I believe they were there on Saturday.


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    If you look at the NASA Timing and Scoring site, DQ's are often explained. I've not seen other explanations for when a competitor has been dropped a postion or two. Something like that usually stems from a peer-to-peer protest (so-and-so jumped the start). It could be something as simple as the fact that there isn't a field in the T/S program to enter them.

    Index of /NASA_Championships

    At last year's championships, when I was overseeing SM dyno pulls and tech, my policy was that competitors could see their dyno data, but not that of others.

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    I know it was a hectic weekend for the NASA admins at the Western Championships but I was disappointed in the lack of communication and the uneven application of tech throughout the weekend. Not what one would expect from a Championship event. I felt like we were in a running battle with the officials the entire time. Much of the confusion/frustration was simply due to a lack of communication from some of the officials.



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    The 7th to 9th swap was/is confusing... maybe I'll ask TC at this weekend's event. Ryan was in 8th and ready to claim a $100 SRC contingency prize when then both he and Hannah were moved up a position and George Cloos moved back to 9th. Not that worried about $100 but just curious on what type of infraction would move you two slots.

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    The dyno results were posted along with the timing sheets at the club house.
    I like that. My bad for having missed them! Thanks Mark.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolTech View Post
    NASA Transparency
    ox·y·mo·ron
    ˌäksəˈmôrˌän
    noun
    a figure of speech in which apparently contradictory terms appear in conjunction

    Last edited by thepass; 10-27-2017 at 12:30 PM.
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    NASA changing results after the protest period has closed, without notifiying any of the affected parties = SOP. We had this happen to us twice during the 2010 and 2011 endurance race series in CA. In neither case were we able to get our lost results reinstated. We took in in stride and moved forward. The changes were entirely against the rules as written. We protested and were basically told to "deal with it". So we did. Those episodes were the early straws that were piling on the camel's back though. Lasted another 2 years then we left the organization and started our own.

    Random and arbitrary rule book interpretations are par for the course. Just roll with it if you want to race with them.

    The key to understanding the relevant politics is that NASA is a privately owned, for profit business. They have no elected board. No members voting on issues. It is an autocracy, with profit as sole motive. Ultimately one guy making the decisions. None of that is a problem in theory. Just don't expect entirely egalitarian decisions and policies all the time. Some times yes, other times, not so much.
    Last edited by emilio700; 10-27-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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    Thanks for the insight, Emillio.

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    I can tell you after watching the start of the SM race at the Western Championships- The Pole sitter jumped the flag- BIG TIME. If he was moved back to 2nd, consider that a gift and not a Black flag. Everyone was yelling "Black Flag, Black Flag!" on the wall. p.s. I have no skin in SM- I was just watching for the wrecks

    But I agree- Goto NASA site. This is not the place for a concrete answer.
    Thanks,

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