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Thread: Murder Mystery LS Done

  1. #21
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    That's the plan.


    I have. If I am to rebuilding it, I'd want a specialist like Chris. If I'm just swapping in a motor, my regular mechanic should manage. So I suppose it comes down to which route I go. Labor for the swap is looking to be $1,200, which is about what I expected. LS1 motors going from $2,500 to 4,000. They aren't inexpensive.
    what you need right now is an expert to tell you what to check to diagnose what's going on for less than $1800. Either that or pay for the replacement if the bearing material in the filter spooked ya off this engine. In which case, I want it How much bearing material was there?

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    It all depends on how mechanical you are and how much tools you got as to how you proceed.

    You could get more with a $20 buck blackstone oil test. It will say you got too much particles in oil which means don't run it anymore or you make it worse. LS blocks can't be overbored. Some say you can go 0.10" overbore. For sure you can't do the old chevy power trick overbore 0.40".
    Report might say oil looks good. That might mean particles are too big or motor OK. Armed with this data you may feel better about cranking the motor. 1st step is how did motor die? If you think engine dies but not destroy like bending valves or broken timing chain that kind of thing, then you go to basics.
    Do you have spark and fuel? Futze around until you got both or can simulate both.

    If you rebuild I would do a total. I would rebuild the shortblock as basic LS1 which is the same as LS6. If you are not worried about fitting in a racing class I would use stock shortblock stuff but forged rods not for more power but for bottom end longevity. Then source LS6 heads which are 243 or 799 casting and the stock LS6 cam. This will make an LS6 motor really nice with stock power built for extra durability for the track. The LS6 is the LS1 with different heads and cam. Until you are running slicks and wings the LS6 lives fine on track with just +1qt of oil. BRP did not blow up your motor. Oh and cutting oil filters is hillbilly oldschool and unreliable. The oil test is the gold standard.
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  3. #23
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Don't they still cut filters for airplane engine inspections?

  4. #24
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    what you need right now is an expert to tell you what to check to diagnose what's going on for less than $1800. Either that or pay for the replacement if the bearing material in the filter spooked ya off this engine. In which case, I want it How much bearing material was there?
    Haha, the fist vulture arrived. Tom described it as a "small amount" and predicted that the bearings are going bad, but have not spun.

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    It all depends on how mechanical you are and how much tools you got as to how you proceed.

    You could get more with a $20 buck blackstone oil test. It will say you got too much particles in oil which means don't run it anymore or you make it worse. LS blocks can't be overbored. Some say you can go 0.10" overbore. For sure you can't do the old chevy power trick overbore 0.40".
    Report might say oil looks good. That might mean particles are too big or motor OK. Armed with this data you may feel better about cranking the motor. 1st step is how did motor die? If you think engine dies but not destroy like bending valves or broken timing chain that kind of thing, then you go to basics.
    Do you have spark and fuel? Futze around until you got both or can simulate both.

    If you rebuild I would do a total. I would rebuild the shortblock as basic LS1 which is the same as LS6. If you are not worried about fitting in a racing class I would use stock shortblock stuff but forged rods not for more power but for bottom end longevity. Then source LS6 heads which are 243 or 799 casting and the stock LS6 cam. This will make an LS6 motor really nice with stock power built for extra durability for the track. The LS6 is the LS1 with different heads and cam. Until you are running slicks and wings the LS6 lives fine on track with just +1qt of oil. BRP did not blow up your motor. Oh and cutting oil filters is hillbilly oldschool and unreliable. The oil test is the gold standard.
    Good advice, but is there really any possibility that the engine does not need a rebuild? I can't fathom such a possibility unless the oil pressure did not actually reach zero. But then again, I don't know jack about motors. I happen to have some blackstone oil containers to take an oil sample with, but I don't know if I have the luxury of time. Most mechanics won't want to store the car for a week or two for free.
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    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    I don't know if I have the luxury of time. Most mechanics won't want to store the car for a week or two for free.
    Well I would tell a that mechanic to do the blackstone test. I don't see based on what you have posted why you would not? Lets say the balckstone test came back good with flying colors. With that info I would be checking compression and leakdown before I even considered rebuilding. Now any racer cam make a great case for rebuilding a trackmotor with 100k miles on it but honestly if you got good oil report, good compression, and good leakdown there is no reason for tearing the motor down. Oil testing is definitive. metal in the filter does not automatically condemn an engine but can give you valuable clues if you know how to use them, apply them and test in successive oil filter evaluations. The mechanic has to diagnose then fix. What is he going to fix? An electrical problem killing oil pressure and fuel pumps or rebuilding a motor? Those are not even close to each other.

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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Okay. We'll do it the correct way. Oil analysis it is.
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    It seems like your motor has to be done, but, if it's not, the weirdest thing I had with my LS6 was when the crank position sensor was intermittently cutting out.

    When it was cutting out, the motor would crank but not fire, and if the car was running at the time (e.g., on the 405 ha ha), the motor would keep turning but there wouldn't be any power.

    Of course it didn't throw any codes of any kind
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silversprint View Post
    Maybe oil pump or oil pump bypass spring failure?
    That's what I'm thinking. The LS2 in my GTO did that - fired it up in the driveway and the console made a big fuss about lack of oil pressure. Shut it down, got it towed to the dealer (still under warranty). They pulled the engine and replaced the pump. I never found out what went wrong with it, but I assume the relief valve got stuck open - what else could it be?

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    You can guess all day long at a mutable amount of possibilities. But part of Diagnosis is doing simple system tests to determine what IS happening. As Billybob recommended. Oil test will tell you what IS in the oil. A oil PSI test with a manual test gauge will tell you if there IS oil PSI. Breaking each system down and testing it IS a good Diag proses.

    If you try to guess. Your taking on a world of problems. On the other hand, Diagnosis IS a step by step posses to tell you, what systems are working. And what are not.

    As the 1800 for diag. Wow. that's a lot of $$. Any good shop wouldn't take more then 2hrs to tell you if the motor is bad. And that is being on the generous side. AND most shops (at lest all the shops I've ever worked at) would add the Diag $$ to the job if you had them do it.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member CharleyH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Okay. We'll do it the correct way. Oil analysis it is.
    I don’t know where you are in Orange County, but if you are near Fountain Valley I have quite a few Blackstone oil sample kits and you are welcome to one. Blackstone doesn’t charge for the kits so you can order them from them also but if you want one quickly you are welcome to one of mine. I do an oil analysis on my race car every 10 hours, they are helpful to see how the engine is wearing.

    Charley

  11. #31
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CharleyH View Post
    I donít know where you are in Orange County, but if you are near Fountain Valley I have quite a few Blackstone oil sample kits and you are welcome to one. Blackstone doesnít charge for the kits so you can order them from them also but if you want one quickly you are welcome to one of mine. I do an oil analysis on my race car every 10 hours, they are helpful to see how the engine is wearing.

    Charley
    Thank you! I am touched by the support I am receiving here. I actually have a few Blackstone containers handy.
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  12. #32
    Senior Member cosmin's Avatar
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    Damn it, son. You have some of the worst luck with cars. Good luck sorting everything out.
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  13. #33
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    He reminds me of me, before I started driving Miatas.
    Sad thing is, his luck pushed past Miata ownership.
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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    The Mr2 was reliable until I put a Yamaha engine in it. I should just stick with 100% Toyota next time.

    I picked up the car this weekend. Lugging it through the Grapevine with a single axle trailer meant to tow a 1,900 lbs MR2, and a 180 hp 4runner was interesting and sometimes terrifying. It's now with Oli's guy in OC. Awaiting word from the detective re: cause of death.

    Meanwhile, considering putting in a used LS1 or perhaps exploring other options, such as an LS1 block with ls2 heads for 400 hp.
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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Put in a LS6

    1. You can take T1/2 at ACS
    2. Spec Corvette legal
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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Put in a LS6

    1. You can take T1/2 at ACS
    2. Spec Corvette legal
    Haha. As if I can afford to drive wheel to wheel in a Vette.

    If such a thing ever becomes viable in the future, then it is comforting to know that Vettes can be found for even less than I purchased mine. Chris (Oli's guy) showed me two C5 vettes, a z06 and a c5, that he acquired for under $5,000. That's just ridiculous. I wouldn't use this clean 2002 for racing. I'd go find a salvage Vette.
    Last edited by SDSUsnowboards; 02-05-2018 at 09:57 AM.
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  17. #37
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Heads were pulled. They look good, and there is no evidence of catastrophic damage to the engine. Best guess is that a bearing is done. Still no explanation for why the car wouldn't start. Verified the rails were getting fuel. Oil analysis pending. I am supposing my best option would be to swap in another motor and sell my motor as a rebuildable core.
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  18. #38
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    My bare LS1 is available, if anyone is interested. Sold as is. It has not been taken apart yet, but I will be removing the oil pump to inspect it as the probable cause of oil pressure failure. It's just the block. No intake/ injectors/ plugs/ etc.

    Also available is a set of ls1 heads,off of another motor, with 110,000 miles on them, in good condition.

    I'll be up and running in a few weeks.
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  19. #39
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post

    I'll be up and running in a few weeks.
    And after a few race dollars I guess (same exchange rate as boat dollars ).
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  20. #40
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
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    I'm not insinuating anything, but if you can swap an engine into an MR2, a Corvette engine should be child's play?
    Yer pal,
    Force

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