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    Did anyone catch the radio conversation between Hamilton and the team regarding retiring to save the engine? I think Hamilton ultimately retired about 5 laps before the end of the race with the team citing undertray damage. Maybe that was really the case but given the radio chatter it casts some doubt. Should this type of behavior be allowed? No way to enforce it I suppose. I interpreted the conversation as 'we're not in the points so we may as well quit'. It will be interesting to see how the FIA deals with this. I wouldn't think they would like having the stars of the series just pull off because they were having a bad day. The 'throw in the towel' attitude sure doesn't make me like Hamilton any more than I already do. I can't imagine Alonso having this conversatiion. Senna? No way.

    I can see it now: "The start sucked. I'm coming in."

    Mark
    Last edited by markn; 08-27-2014 at 07:57 PM.
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    Well, one thing's for sure. Nobody ever cheats in car racing . . .

    Quote Originally Posted by markn View Post
    Did anyone catch the radio conversation between Hamilton and the team regarding retiring to save the engine? I think Hamilton ultimately retired about 5 laps before the end of the race with the team citing undertray damage. Maybe that was really the case but given the radio chatter it casts some doubt. Should this type of behavior be allowed? No way to enforce it I suppose. I interpreted the conversation as 'we're not in the points so we may as well quit'. It will be interesting to see how the FIA deals with this. I wouldn't think they would like having the stars of the series just pull off because they were having a bad day. The 'throw in the towel' attitude sure doesn't make me like Hamilton any more than I already do. I can't imagine Alonso having this conversatiion. Senna? No way.

    I can see it now: "The start sucked. I'm coming in."

    Mark
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    I did catch it in Sky sports F1 and was a little bothered by the request. It's understandable due to they only get 5 ICE for the season and he has burned up one motor and he is in fear of getting a 10 place grid penalty or even worse another DNF. A ten place grid penalty should be a walk in the park considering he's started mid pack, 20th and from the pit and still made it to the podium, driver or car who knows how he worked his was to the podium.

    As a preventative measure The FIA should issue a penalty, 5 or 10 grid spaces against drivers that premature retire from the race with a working car and only allow a car to withdraw if there is a safety concern.

    And yes I follow Hamilton but some of the things he does even I can't stand it
    Last edited by Johnny_Se7en; 08-27-2014 at 08:38 PM. Reason: Typo, stop posting from a iPad mini.
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    The NBCSN announcers were lamenting about pulling in to save the engine, but they might have missed the point. Either way, it was a disappointing move.

    The "That start sucked. I'm coming in," attitude is pretty sad, really.

    This story didn't happen at a car race, but rather at the Daytona 200 in about 1995, 1996 or so. Scott "Mr. Daytona" Russell was in the front five on the first lap. He low-sided it in the International Horseshoe and couldn't get the bike picked up and going again until the entire field had gone by. He jumped back on and hammered it for 200 miles and won the race. It was one of the most amazing races I ever witnessed.

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    It was the team asking him to come in. He wanted to stay out. They wanted to save the engine. Later they came up with the "floor damaged" BS. Matchett was beside himself with disgust and just managed to hide it. "what is happening to our sport?".
    multi hundred dollar budgets, stupid expensive tickets to view race, billionaire owner of series,, yeah, quit early so we can make the car last longer. F the fans that you know, paid millions worldwide for the privilege of watching us race.

    You want relevant technology? Make hem race the same damn engine all year like we do and my daily driver for that matter. If it breaks, rebuild that ****er!
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    Scott Russell is one of my heroes. When I was playing around on sport bikes he was the man. I remember that race. What a drive. A racers racer for sure and by all accounts a down to earth nice guy.
    Last edited by markn; 08-27-2014 at 08:55 PM.
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    I'm not sure this Hammy issue is any different from other complaints around the grid of fuel savings or tire managing instead of racing. IIRC it was Hammy who first asked if they should still race and save the powerplant. In the face of utter frustration he was keeping his eye on the prize.
    Last edited by fatbillybob; 08-27-2014 at 09:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markn View Post
    Should this type of behavior be allowed?
    Given the current limit on number of engines allowed per season, I think it should. Retiring with no chance of points was, in Lewis's situation, part of the season strategy. He now has some extra miles/power available that Nico doesn't.

    I interpreted the conversation as 'we're not in the points so we may as well quit'.
    Well you are wrong. It was, "We're not in the points and we're burning up miles on an engine that we will need later in the season."

    It will be interesting to see how the FIA deals with this. I wouldn't think they would like having the stars of the series just pull off because they were having a bad day. The 'throw in the towel' attitude sure doesn't make me like Hamilton any more than I already do. I can't imagine Alonso having this conversatiion. Senna? No way.
    You do not understand F1.

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    Ahh, but I do understand F1. Thats why this situation bothers me so.

    I stand by my previous post. No doubt Hamilton and team played the rules to their best advantage. It doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with the rules or attitudes that imcentivises behavoir that is not in the best interest of the fans or the sport.

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    Quote Originally Posted by markn View Post
    Ahh, but I do understand F1. Thats why this situation bothers me so.

    I stand by my previous post. No doubt Hamilton and team played the rules to their best advantage. It doesn't mean that there isn't a problem with the rules or attitudes that imcentivises behavoir that is not in the best interest of the fans or the sport.

    Mark
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    Rob, as usual you are on point.
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    Hamilton did have issues. he couldn't even catch Sutil.

    this is no different than last year, when drivers won't even go out in Q3 to qualify. saving a fresh set of tires was more important than qualifying P7 vs. P10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Hamilton did have issues. he couldn't even catch Sutil.

    this is no different than last year, when drivers won't even go out in Q3 to qualify. saving a fresh set of tires was more important than qualifying P7 vs. P10
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    It was the team asking him to come in. He wanted to stay out. They wanted to save the engine. Later they came up with the "floor damaged" BS. Matchett was beside himself with disgust and just managed to hide it. "what is happening to our sport?".
    multi hundred dollar budgets, stupid expensive tickets to view race, billionaire owner of series,, yeah, quit early so we can make the car last longer. F the fans that you know, paid millions worldwide for the privilege of watching us race.

    You want relevant technology? Make hem race the same damn engine all year like we do and my daily driver for that matter. If it breaks, rebuild that ****er!
    Maybe I am the minority, but I don't even get excited about watching F1 anymore. I'll watch ALMS, DTM, BTC, AV8SC and Nascar at a roadcourse before F1.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force McCocken View Post
    Maybe I am the minority, but I don't even get excited about watching F1 anymore. I'll watch ALMS, DTM, BTC, AV8SC and Nascar at a roadcourse before F1.
    Through Pirelli World Challenge into the mix too. Great series, but they seem to be doing their best to stifle any season long interest. Their current strategy is to broadcast races at least a month after they happen, often after or overlapping with races that could be broadcast live.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force McCocken View Post
    Maybe I am the minority, but I don't even get excited about watching F1 anymore. I'll watch ALMS, DTM, BTC, AV8SC and Nascar at a roadcourse before F1.
    Have you watched any of the last races?
    There were some excellent battles in every single one of them that were well worth watching.

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    The racing this year has been unbelievable. Sure the silver arrows clearly have an advantage, but the racing for the best of the rest has been great. This is in the face of declining spectator turn outs and TV ratings. it doesn't help that Bernie has his head up his ass about embracing Social Media. The average age of an F1 fan is now 55. The drama between Nico and Hamilton is actually good for the sport, and putting it back in the public eye again. The Senna and Prost rivalry brought huge popularity to sports. Everyone likes good old fashion drama. It gets people engaged.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns_EvoIXSE View Post
    The drama between Nico and Hamilton is actually good for the sport, and putting it back in the public eye again.
    Who are Nico and Hamilton? Do they drive with Speed Ventures a lot? Is Bernie Aaron Bitterman's new partner?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns_EvoIXSE View Post
    The racing this year has been unbelievable. Sure the silver arrows clearly have an advantage, but the racing for the best of the rest has been great. This is in the face of declining spectator turn outs and TV ratings. it doesn't help that Bernie has his head up his ass about embracing Social Media. The average age of an F1 fan is now 55. The drama between Nico and Hamilton is actually good for the sport, and putting it back in the public eye again. The Senna and Prost rivalry brought huge popularity to sports. Everyone likes good old fashion drama. It gets people engaged.
    All true. I think there are some pretty terrible trends in rules though. They haven't ruined it, but they don't help. As mentioned above, when the rules encourage teams to save engines, then that is exactly what they will do. The whole fuel flow BS is an obnoxious distraction too. I also think these engines sound terrible, which seems silly to criticize, but i think its a symptom of F1 getting away from being a leader in all-out performance and trying to be a leader in green tech as well.
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    The reason for the major rule changes was actually to keep the manufactures involved, which of course brought about unintended consequences.

    The main problem is F1 doesn't understand it's customers, because it's been reliant on it's suppliers and 3rd parties for promotion and marketing. The private equity group that owns f1 has just been interested in squeezing every last dime out of the organization to increase earnings and doesn't invest in this area at all. It needs a proper marketing strategy for the long term which would then allow them to make better decisions about the rules.
    Last edited by Johns_EvoIXSE; 08-28-2014 at 04:45 PM.
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