+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 47
Like Tree54Likes

Thread: The incident or how to get rid of the compition. What's your take?

  1. #1
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default The incident or how to get rid of the compition. What's your take?

    Saturday's PT race with NASA was a very eventful, crazy and sometimes scary time. I will post the highlights as soon as I get it done.

    But for now. I kind of feel bad about an incident that happened after the first turn. I'll hold my comments till I hear some of yours, as not to sway anyone.
    Though I will tell you that The BMW is from the group (the next to get the green flag) behind us.

    T1 is @ 0:31 and the incident starts about 0:41
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  2. #2
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,766
    Liked
    2588 times

    Default

    Looked like you dropped two, didn't lift, car hooked left into the other RX7 that was at 1 car width and tagged him. Other RX7 trajectory was going to pinch you off in true NASA "1/2 car width" fashion but was at 1 full car width when you tagged him.

    Two mistake as I see it

    1. Should have lifted or at least been prepared to snap some right lock in when you dropped two

    2. Shuffle steering will cause bad things


    Fix your seating /steering wheel /steering column position so you can keep your shoulders on the seat and with right hand on the top of the wheel, rotate it 180 to the right. Left hand on top of wheel, rotate 180 left.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  3. #3
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,236
    Liked
    2343 times

    Default

    Emilio, I see it a bit different than you.

    Gian did drop two off, but I see him put a little bit of right steering in when he drops two off a bit late as his car thrusts left. At the same time the Koos car is moving right. Then Gian gets full control and is moving slightly left as the track straightens. The Koos car is still moving right and Gian has at best half his right tires on the asphalt when contact occurs.

    I am surprised the Koos car got that upset from that bit of contact....
    Last edited by Olitho; 04-24-2017 at 08:42 PM.
    Plavan likes this.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  4. #4
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default

    Again in slow mo
    Last edited by Gian; 04-24-2017 at 08:47 PM.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  5. #5
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    by the beach
    Posts
    2,087
    Liked
    1720 times

    Default

    I'm not good with looking at video but from what I see you guys don't want to race with me either because I would have punted that black car too and not letting up on the gas because I react too slow and I'm old. So if you see a traffic cone orange vette keep your distance. Looks to me like you were holding your line and pretty close to the red/white stripe miata following his line very straight both of you in a single lane. The black car made the mistake of not picking a lane and sticking to it instead tracking out like he is doing an HPDE. If you are going to switch lanes then you better check traffic and he did not. The car that hit the black car IMO is no more at fault than the guy who nails the porsche at the apex doing the porsche chop. With their POC/PCA rules guys use the chop as a weapon and the other driver has to yield or he gets a 13/13 for contact. as a corollary to that, IMO the most dangerous thing about new racers coming from HPDE/time trials is they race on the time trial line thinking that's the line and everyone is going to follow it. The race line is different. I see new racers braking for a late apex thinking they own the corner and another racer will dive into the apex late braking be legal door to door and the newbie will nail the other guy at the apex thinking the apex is his. Well...It isn't.
    Olitho, ucfbrett, bawareca and 4 others like this.

  6. #6
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,899
    Liked
    2528 times

    Default

    This is what I hate about NASAs 1/2 (or is it 3/4?) car width rule.
    I would of done what Gian did. But not sure who is at fault here with NASA rule.
    Olitho and redtopz like this.
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  7. #7
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    7,008
    Liked
    1495 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    This is what I hate about NASAs 1/2 (or is it 3/4?) car width rule.
    I would of done what Gian did. But not sure who is at fault here with NASA rule.
    According to nasa rules, Gian is attempting the pass, needed to be willing to drop tires to complete it safely. He had the best view at the point of contact as well.

  8. #8
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Los Angeles
    Posts
    328
    Liked
    223 times

    Default

    Seems that the only time racers talk about car widths is after cars collide and someone's race is over.

    It's no surprise that crowding usually ends of tears; it's only a surprise when it doesn't.


    Not speaking of this incident specifically. NASA's 3/4 rule is like a lot of other rules; it's as poorly written as it is conceived.

  9. #9
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default

    Thank you all for you comments.

    NASA ruled it a racing incident. Minor damage to both cars.

    Koos is a seasoned racer that just came back from 3 year break.
    It's kind of my fault because my front wheel was just at his door, and so the pass was not complete. I though I had room and felt like I had a slight advantage because I felt like I was pulling on him. Though I was planning on giving way before the next turn if I didn't again any more ground. I was also watching the other BMW to see what he was going to try and do (they caught us off guard coming through at the start like they did). You can see by the white line, I'm moving smoothly back on the tarmac. Koos made and abrupt turn out at that same time. I didn't have enough time to react. I turned hard right, then at point of impact, turn slight left. Knowing that a car heads in the direction the wheels are turned on impact with another car (something I learned in circle track). That also may have turned him. Then right again. Trying to avoid any more contact. but the second impact was his rear wheel and my bumper as I backed off. That finished the job of turning him. I saw the video from the car behind us and it doesn't look like I was off the road when we touched.


    I kind of feel bad. Mostly because that was his first race back. He also pack up and went home on Sunday. But also feel like he should have known I was there. Although he doesn't have a right hand mirror. He should not have made such an abrupt move at the start of a race and in a crowd.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,899
    Liked
    2528 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    It's kind of my fault because my front wheel was just at his door, and so the pass was not complete. .
    Isn't NASA rule that if you have front tire at his door. You have the line (complete 1 car width) ? Or is that SCCA ?
    S1 Supermiata - 220whp
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350R
    03 Miata Club Sport
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S
    Beck 550 Spyder

  11. #11
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Isn't NASA rule that if you have front tire at his door. You have the line (complete 1 car width) ? Or is that SCCA ?
    One would think. But it still comes down to - the person making the pass is responsible to make a safe pass.

    But, again NASA ruled it a race incident. I just wanted to know if I should feel like a dick or not next time I talk to Koos. Though he did turn me around 3 years ago in T1 at WPIR. So I guess we are even. lol
    bellwilliam and bawareca like this.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  12. #12
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    I'm not good with looking at video but from what I see you guys don't want to race with me either because I would have punted that black car too and not letting up on the gas because I react too slow and I'm old. So if you see a traffic cone orange vette keep your distance.
    Are you sure your not in a SM car? Cause that's normal for SM.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  13. #13
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,766
    Liked
    2588 times

    Default

    Watch the yaw rate of Gian's car when it hits the dirt. You can reference off structures visible through the windshield. It yaws sharply left when the right side tires hit the dirt, then he corrects with right lock. At moment of impact, Koos car is giving racing room. Yes its a racing incident but Gian took
    a risk by coming back on to the track suddenly where cars are naturally tracking out.
    Gian likes this.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  14. #14
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,334
    Liked
    764 times

    Default

    I Agee that ultimately it was a racing incident, based on the NASA 3/4 car rule I'd still put more blame on you Gian. I think you needed to either stay 2 off or give up the pass attempt. Both of which I think would have prevented contact.

    What class were those BMWs in and how did they come through your start so fast? Did PTE have its own wave or were the front two cars of your wave higher class PT?
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  15. #15
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,236
    Liked
    2343 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Watch the yaw rate of Gian's car when it hits the dirt. You can reference off structures visible through the windshield. It yaws sharply left when the right side tires hit the dirt, then he corrects with right lock. At moment of impact, Koos car is giving racing room. Yes its a racing incident but Gian took
    a risk by coming back on to the track suddenly where cars are naturally tracking out.
    Yes, Gian's car yaws for a moment, but Koos keeps tracking right even after Gian gathered it up and moved back onto the asphalt. Both drivers contributed to the incident, although Koos got the worst of it.
    1. If I was a faultless driver - If I was Gian I would have backed out of the throttle a bit or left two off longer and moved back on track more smoothly.
    2. If I was Koos I would not have tracked right as far to leave room for a car needing racing room.


    If either of those two things happened no one would be here talking about this. Neiter driver yielded....
    robburgoon, SeanB, Red_5 and 2 others like this.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  16. #16
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Watch the yaw rate of Gian's car when it hits the dirt. You can reference off structures visible through the windshield. It yaws sharply left when the right side tires hit the dirt, then he corrects with right lock. At moment of impact, Koos car is giving racing room. Yes its a racing incident but Gian took
    a risk by coming back on to the track suddenly where cars are naturally tracking out.
    Your right, I was the one that took the risk. And to many things happened at one time that I was not prepared for.

    But if you look at the white line using the lettering in the windshield. It's only inches that I move in. At the same time Koos turns out. Changing his direction.

    So, would you feel that is ok to abruptly change like that. Being that it's the start of the race and is crowded?
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  17. #17
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    4,334
    Liked
    764 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    [*]If I was Koos I would not have tracked right as far to leave room for a car needing racing room.[/LIST]
    I would argue Chuck had the position and gave NASA's required 3/4 car width.

    I wonder what was going on to the left of Chuck? Was a BMW coming through?
    99 Mazda Miata SuperMiata #515 - AKA Sparky SOLD
    '91 Mariner Blue Miata project AKA Napoleon

  18. #18
    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Posts
    5,236
    Liked
    2343 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I would argue Chuck had the position and gave NASA's required 3/4 car width.

    I wonder what was going on to the left of Chuck? Was a BMW coming through?
    That whole 3/4 rule this is a bunch of BS. I keep waiting for them to change that. No other race sanctioning body in the world does that. I don't get it now and I never did. I always leave room for the other car. I never intentionally give them just 3/4s.

    As far as Koos and another car coming through, he had no obligation to create room for them, just to leave them room if they were already there, just like he should have left you a couple of more inches. ...Or you should have gotten out of the throttle or run in the dirt.

    Because you both asserted yourselves you made contact and it turned out bad for Koos, racing incident.....
    redtopz, bawareca, Gian and 1 others like this.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

  19. #19
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,239
    Liked
    481 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    What class were those BMWs in and how did they come through your start so fast? Did PTE have its own wave or were the front two cars of your wave higher class PT?
    BMW-BM BMW-CM. (I think it the BMW Club classes). A few things happened. On the out lap. The Honda group (just before us) stopped before cotton corners and back everything up. Then were going to slow. Yes PTD-E & F group had their own flag. The BMW group had their own flag too, but right after us. I heard they started on our flag instead. But those guys were driving like animals. Spending more time off the track then on. Coming back on track at 1/4 speed on turn exits right in front of you. Drive bombing and parking in the turns (if they stayed on the track).
    I was very chaotic but fun at the same time.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  20. #20
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    SoCal
    Posts
    3,766
    Liked
    2588 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    I would argue Chuck had the position and gave NASA's required 3/4 car width.
    I would argue the same.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts