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Thread: HPDE instructor killed, 2 injured at Summit Point

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default HPDE instructor killed, 2 injured at Summit Point

    This just popped up on my fb feed.
    From annual Hyperfest.

    One Dead, Two Medevaced After Multiple Accidents at Raceway - Your4State.com

    Condolences to the family and wishing a speedy recovery for the injured.

    Is it just me or is it becoming too common that instructors get hurt more than students? I wonder if the tendency for drivers to spend more on drivers side safety equipment is a contributing factor. Or maybe its not a trend at all.
    Last edited by emilio700; 06-09-2014 at 09:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I wonder if the tendency for drivers to spend more on drivers side safety equipment is a contributing factor.
    I think so. Even on big budget builds it is very common to see full containment driver's seats and then a cheap, hopefully FIA certified passenger seat. Passengers come in all shapes and sizes whereas the driver's seat is typically installed with only one type of ass in mind.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    this is the event:
    NASA Mid-Atlantic 6/6-8/14 HF @ SPR
    NASA is usually one of the safer event. totally Nazi about instructor and safety thing. may be mechanical ? or hit oil/coolant ?
    it is ran on Jefferson circuit (I am guessing like SOW vs. Big Willow ?).



    car is an 06 GTO
    hit a tree side way.
    Summit point instructor fatality. - MX-5 Miata Forum
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 06-09-2014 at 10:04 AM.
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    Oof that's a shame. Two medevacs in one day? Two too many.

    I've wondered the same thing, Emilio. If I were an instructor, I wouldn't get in a passenger seat that didn't meet minimum safety standards.

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    Speed Ventures agershon's Avatar
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    dbl post
    Last edited by agershon; 06-09-2014 at 09:51 AM. Reason: dbl post

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by agershon View Post
    If I were an instructor, I wouldn't get in a passenger seat that didn't meet minimum safety standards.
    safety standard for HPDE ? is there any car that don't meet that ?
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    safety standard for HPDE ? is there any car that don't meet that ?
    Just saying, maybe the driver seat does but the passenger seat doesn't. I wouldn't instruct it a car like that. Either OEM or conforming seat and harness so I can wear my HANS.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    So the instructor was killed during the "hyperdrive" HPDE event, last session.

    Earlier in the day during the race, spectators were throwing beer cans from the bridge. It's sounding like that may have been a contributing factor to a wreck where a Civic and Probe went off. One of those drivers had to be medevac'ed out.
    Someone on GRM forum was in that race and was hit by beer cans just before the other drivers crashed.

    I basically don't instruct anymore. Too many sketchy cars and drivers. The worst ever was a 240sx at SOW that had his driver side (OEM) belt locked in place with a wood screw. Bare wires visibly shorting, hanging off dash bar. Countless other red flags on that drifter special. I refused to even sit in the car let alone take a ride with him. On the opposite side of the scale was a GTR driver at BRP that managed to go off twice in three laps despite he and Aaron telling me he had driving experience but just needed some line coaching around BRP. Me telling him to settle down and brake earlier had no meaningful effect so I asked him to drop me off at the pit. I think that was one of the last times I offered myself up as an instructor.

    The reality is, even when the student has skill, is listening, on a safe track, in a very well prepared can, bad things can still happen. Be safe out there and use your head.
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    ETK
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    From the news reports, it sounds like the crash involved a street car, but I definitely agree that the passenger side usually has less safety gear. Here is a beautiful passenger seat from an old Datsun racecar.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Different event and date but this is the circuit where the fatality occurred. Trees everywhere, tall grass runoff, no beaches. Much riskier than most HPDE drivers probably know.




    Main track where the races are held and where the beer cans were being tossed onto the track (during the race). I must a be a west coast wuss because that track looks damned dangerous to me. On the opening lap he brakes hard for a right at about 140mph, the car twitches left and he catches it. The driver that doesn't catch it has a tree about 40' to his right. Yikes.\

    This video from a different event and date
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    Such a sad story. This sort of discussion really makes me appreciate the barren desert hellscapes of socal tracks. Not that we haven't had plenty of disasters here, but at least we have a chance of hitting just dust and small rocks.
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    Sir flink
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    Quote Originally Posted by ETK View Post
    From the news reports, it sounds like the crash involved a street car
    2006 Pontiac GTO. aka "my daily driver". I expect there to be details at ls1gto.com but nothing yet.

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    I remember talk down in the SD BMW group to make matching safety gear mandatory between driver and passenger sides... about 8 years ago... and that was "just" for AX events.
    I actually assumed folks had adopted that... hence the Miata wearing matching seats/etc.

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    yea eff that. I see danger all over that track. Immovable trees. All energy focused on a small point...might as well be a big ass dull knife. You don't ever want to go off ever...
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    "sharp left turn, lost control, and crashed into a tree."

    How much safety gear do you need in your car to crash into a tree and walk away?

    BID

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeindirt View Post
    "sharp left turn, lost control, and crashed into a tree."

    How much safety gear do you need in your car to crash into a tree and walk away?

    BID
    Depends on speed and angle of impact of course. Full face helmet, FIA seat, HNRS, 6pt.. maybe. Cage with bars for sure.

    Ultimately I think most HPDE drivers and instructors don't know just how close they are to danger. The only street legal HPDE car we take guests on track has the same equipment FIA seat/harness compatible with HNRS in it on both sides. But, no door bars.
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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeindirt View Post

    How much safety gear do you need in your car to crash into a tree and walk away?

    BID
    Well said.Obviously anything short of WRC spec cage will not do the job.

    My car is rather exception of the rule and both driver and passenger sides are built exactly the same way.No containment seats-but for both sides.Instructors are welcome.
    Last edited by bawareca; 06-09-2014 at 12:08 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bikeindirt View Post
    How much safety gear do you need in your car to crash into a tree and walk away?
    All of it.
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    This is all standard stuff for midwest and east coast tracks. Many of these tracks have been around for a long long time and are famous because of their layout and location with regards to the landscape. I grew up tracking on these tracks so it's not something that bothers me or surprises me.

    Road america - the kink
    Road Atlanta t1 and the hurry downs
    Mosport - allofit
    The Glen - Most of it (the boot)
    etc etc.

    These old historic tracks have walls and trees way too close for comfort. Really keeps you on your toes.
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    Ah!!! Stopped doing in-car driver teaching years ago just because of this type of deal... This deal just sucks, and beer cans... really!
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