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Thread: HPDE-2 Crash at Road Atlanta

  1. #21
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Force McCocken View Post
    The first thing I say after I introduce myself is,"I am married and would sure love to go home to see my wife tonight, so I am here to help you be safe, can you be safe for me?" The older students I get, some take pause with this. It is how I know who I am dealing with. The younger ones barely register, so I know it will be a struggle.
    I stopped instructing altogether. Until industry standards change to insure proper safety equipment for instructors (ain't gonna happen), I decline. I miss instructing, but I'm also OK not having that in my life.
    passmenow and Blackbird like this.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

  2. #22
    RaceTape Ninja Force McCocken's Avatar
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    I hear you. I want to help my friend build his reputation staging HPDEs. If I can help a few newbs be safer, enjoy themselves, and realize the dangers and still help a good friend, I will.
    Yer pal,
    Force

  3. #23
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I stopped instructing altogether. Until industry standards change to insure proper safety equipment for instructors (ain't gonna happen), I decline. I miss instructing, but I'm also OK not having that in my life.
    Haha. That's why my instructing has gone from making students go fast to:

    "Slow is fast"
    "Shifting at 5k rpm is the sweet spot"
    "Smooth and slow is FAST"
    "Tire squel is slow"
    "Zero slip angle is fast"
    "Electronic nannies are fast"
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
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  4. #24
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    I've only instructed once since Sean Edwards died, and it was a friend's car which we installed full safety gear for both driver and instructor.
    I sat with him for one session only, and the driver was made well aware that he'll need to turn stuff down to 7/10ths while I'm in the car.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 08-04-2015 at 09:25 PM.

  5. #25
    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    I'm always sorry to hear about incidents like this. My condolences to friends and family.

  6. #26
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I stopped instructing altogether.
    The top coaches are using only data. Being in the right seat went out with the dial telephone. The death of Sean Edwards kinda drove the final nail in the right seat coffin for pro coaches. Amateur instructors are still in the right seat but that will change as all the dinosaurs like me fade away to the kids who understand squiggly lines and data acquisition.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I stopped instructing altogether. Until industry standards change to insure proper safety equipment for instructors (ain't gonna happen), I decline. I miss instructing, but I'm also OK not having that in my life.
    You're not still giving rides in customer rented Lotus Elises at SoW to fellow HPDE drivers, are you?
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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  8. #28
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    Personal concerns about safety are why I had Moti build my cage better and beefier than most 240SX cages.

    Instructor concerns about safety are why I had Moti build my cage with an emphasis on safety for two, rather than one.

    I know I need the help to overcome some of my bad tendencies, and if someone's going to take the time to help me get better, I want to make sure that person is safe.
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    Steve C.
    1992 Nissan 240SX
    Sub-2200lbs, stock with bolt-ons, Blackbird cage
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  9. #29
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    I have built my cage similar in both sides-side protection, seats and 6 point harnesses.Co-pilot could wear HNR device as comfortable as the driver.
    robburgoon likes this.

  10. #30
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    I've instructed a good amount of times and every single time I get in passenger, I make it CLEAR that your first 2 laps will be no more than 40%. I just started a thread about safety requirements in HPDE cars, but so far responses doesn't seem to be on the side of safety.

  11. #31
    Philosoraptor LagunaBlueS2k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vLude99 View Post
    I've instructed a good amount of times and every single time I get in passenger, I make it CLEAR that your first 2 laps will be no more than 40%. I just started a thread about safety requirements in HPDE cars, but so far responses doesn't seem to be on the side of safety.
    I don't think that the people responding are not on the side of safety, so much as aware of the implications of stringent safety requirements for HPDE. Most of the people on here have cars with roll cages, race seat, hans, etc., as many of the members here race.

    The point is, if you make the barrier to entry too high, many people will not reach to meet it due to cost. This has a direct effect on the HPDE organizers pocketbooks. At the end of the day, it is a business. If there is no monetary motivator, you have no reason to organize the HPDE in the first place.

    It is a trade off. Do you want the people in red group to run their cars at those speeds on the streets and highways, or do you want them to be in a controlled environment where there are far fewer variables? Everytime you take your car out on to the track, you assume a risk. Whether you are better prepared to deal with that risk is your personal responsibility.

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by vLude99 View Post
    but so far responses doesn't seem to be on the side of safety.
    You're new here and you don't know the members here or their positions on track safety. I'd put the attitude away, Dude . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
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  13. #33
    Junior Member Mahjik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vLude99 View Post
    I've instructed a good amount of times and every single time I get in passenger, I make it CLEAR that your first 2 laps will be no more than 40%. I just started a thread about safety requirements in HPDE cars, but so far responses doesn't seem to be on the side of safety.
    Unfortunately, most *new* track drivers are more interested in purchasing that shiny new coilover kit or a big brake kit because that's what they know. They know those things can make them faster, and provide more enjoyment at the track. Safety equipment unfortunately isn't seen in that light.

    The other issue with safety equipment is it can turn a street car into something which isn't legal on the streets. While FIA/SFI certifications are fantastic for the track, the DOT doesn't give a rip about those certifications. People can't just run out and buy a HANS and then jump into their grocery-getter for some laps. As most people know, you need the proper seat, the proper harnesses and then that pulls in rollover protection. These things work all in concert together so you can't just do "part of it".

    That's a large hurdle for newcomers to tracking. And an expense that most aren't willing take. Even with every accessible safety measure us common folk have access to, stuff can still happen (i.e. an object penetrates the car and the driver). However, even with freak accidents (and I would put this one in that category), it's no excuse to not at least consider what effective measures drivers can take for safety. The goal should be education so at least drivers are making informed decisions when they head to the track. As LagunaBlueS2k mentions, forcing everyone to have a fully compliant race prep cars even for HPDE's will drastically lower participation (and that could send some smaller tracks out of business).

    I will say for myself, it would be hard to go back to doing any track driving (myself) without a full safety system (cage, containment seat, HANS, etc). I did it for years long ago, but I'm lucky enough I never had to test the OEM based equipment on my old cars.

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