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Thread: How to improve HPDE events

  1. #21
    Senior Member 48yota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    NASA is probably the most structured organization out there and has a rulebook bigger than the yellowbook. Rules and regulations and policies. You don't see them low on participation count. People still go with them and compete in their TT classes with a ton of rules. Same with the W2W classes. People still race with them. So with that said, i don't think rules will necessarily push people away.

    People want cheap, organized, safe, lots of seat time/session track days. So no crazy drivers driving with reckless abandon doing stunts all over the place. They want it affordable, not cheap. I am sure people will pay $30 extra if it includes FIRE, Ambulance, insurance. Hell people pay $20 just to rent a transponder and $10 gate fees just like that. $100-200 is the magic number. People will come play in that price range.
    AROSC is a very structured club as well but our main issue is getting track days. We are a not for profit club that runs 5-6 track weekend plus 2 school weekends. We have been partnering with other clubs over the last few years mainly because we cannot get the premium days that we used to get mainly because we only run 1 possibly 2 events with a given track each year, where other clubs reserve 10+ or more weekends at a single track alone. We require that all AROSC licensed drivers attend at least one school and at least 3 non incident events prior to getting your license. When there are new people that register with AROSC that have never run with us we confirm what they are stating on the registration form, if we cannot confirm it we put them in the beginner/HPDE group and require that they attend the at the track classroom sessions. We also don't put people in groups just because they turned a "fast" time, experience plays a key role in which group you belong in. I would rather pass or get passed by someone that knows the correct way rather than some yahoo that thinks he know how just because he is fast.

    Does this limit our ability to get attendees to the track, yes, but we don't not want someone at our event that will cause problems for the other drivers. We have kicked people out for doing bad things on the track but we try to reason with them first. We do require full length clothing, full face current spec helmets, closed toed shoes, gloves, all of non synthetic material. We also require that cars of a certain age or older have a properly installed 5-6pt harness. We also spot check cars thru the weekend to make sure that drivers can read and understand the rules. We also require fire safety and ambulance at all events, again, I would rather have them and not need them then need them and not have them...when do you need those types of services at an event, when it is too late!

    We do encourage everyone to have a good on track experience but track safety is both the competitors and the event organizers responsibility. For those of you that have never run with AROSC I would encourage that you give us a try, when it is a solo event or the TT/RACE school, there are many on this board that would agree that we run a tight ship and we make it an enjoyable experience when we do.

    Dennis
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    I would also like to add, i was using NASA as example. Biggest national HPDE organization i know of. I am also NOT saying that all other similar sized or smaller regional/local organizations are not organized or don't have safety or rules. I am sure they do, but not ALL of them have everything checked off.
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    I found this statement profound.

    "Mark my words, though: If we, as a community of trackday drivers and instructors, don't start looking seriously at ways to reduce the risk, these decisions are going to be taken out of our hands and put in the hands of others. Lawmakers, attorneys, trial judges, and the non-enthusiast public. So let's start looking at getting our house in order, before someone decides to put it in order for us. "

    Speed Limits at Track Days
    SteveLevin likes this.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    I found this statement profound.

    "Mark my words, though: If we, as a community of trackday drivers and instructors, don't start looking seriously at ways to reduce the risk, these decisions are going to be taken out of our hands and put in the hands of others. Lawmakers, attorneys, trial judges, and the non-enthusiast public. So let's start looking at getting our house in order, before someone decides to put it in order for us. "

    Speed Limits at Track Days
    Just like with deadly swimming pools, amirite? That statement is fear mongering. The worst kind of mongering.
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    AROSC Comp. Director Slaysman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam View Post
    HPDEs are about getting as much track time as possible, with the side benefit of having some instruction.
    Driving Schools are about getting as much instruction as possible, with the side benefit of having some track time.
    I think you may have some misconceptions about driving schools. Example - at our school, you'll get 2 hrs of track time each day and 2 hrs of skid pad time each day. 4 hrs/day in the car. Not enough seat time for you?
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  6. #26
    Senior Member 48yota's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaysman View Post
    I think you may have some misconceptions about driving schools. Example - at our school, you'll get 2 hrs of track time each day and 2 hrs of skid pad time each day. 4 hrs/day in the car. Not enough seat time for you?
    Also 2 hours of classroom each day, 4 hours classroom for the weekend.
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    Senior Member CharleyH's Avatar
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    In addition to participating in events with many of the Southern California HPDE organizers I have participated with groups at Road America, Daytona, and Lime rock Park. There were definately pluses and minuses to all of the different groups. There was a feature of one of the groups that definately stood out as a best practice. When I went to Lime rock Park the event sponsor offered classroom sessions between the driving sessions. That way you drove a session, rested for a session, took a class for a session, rested (or worked on your car) for another session, and then the cycle repeated. The classroom sessions were led by a professional instructor from Skip Barber and was done in a very professional manner with a choice of topics and PowerPoint slides.

  8. #28
    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slaysman View Post
    I think you may have some misconceptions about driving schools. Example - at our school, you'll get 2 hrs of track time each day and 2 hrs of skid pad time each day. 4 hrs/day in the car. Not enough seat time for you?
    I think you may have some misconceptions about the simplicity of my comment without being overly semantic about the differences, but to highlight that HPDEs are NOT Driving Schools, and vice versa. Thus, they carry varying degrees of cost, seat time, instruction, safety, etc.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    It seems as any yahoo with the right amount of money can buy a car way to fast for their talents. But it's always been that way. HPDE is an outlet for us all to drive and enjoy our cars on race tracks. Off the streets and away from all the dangers of high speeds in a very uncontrolled world. Still even at the track, with as much control as we can have. There will always be that small chance it will all go wrong.

    I feel it's true that structure and education plays a big roll in safety. Getting those that are smarter and know more and faster then all of us, to be safe, for everyone on the track's sake. Will always be a the challenge. Unfortunately they will always find a way to get them self into trouble.

    I have been to track days that seem like it was a free for all. Not only did I feel unsafe but even my girlfriend was scared for me to be on track.

    I too, believe that this is an emotion base reaction. Think about the guy that just wrecked on T3 at big Willow. Take the same scenario and put him on the street. It could have been really bad. Not saying he would have been driving the same way. I'm saying he did what he did with only damage to his own car. Sure it could have been better. But it could have been a lot worse.

    Bottom line is. I've got nothing new. Education, individual group leaders and down load sessions so you can hear what's happing in the groups and, hopefully, spot trouble before it happens. Safety levels equal to the performance levels of the car.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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