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Thread: Hans Device Primer

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    Default Hans Device Primer

    After looking at Bueller's thread on crashes and arm restraints, it occurs to me that most of us less experienced drivers don't even have Hans Devices.

    Summit Racing has more choices than I can make sense of: HANS Professional Series HANS Devices - SummitRacing.com

    What are the basic guidelines, and are these devices attached independently of the seat, so that "anyone" could use one that was properly fitted to his chest and helmet?

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    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    What are the basic guidelines, and are these devices attached independently of the seat, so that "anyone" could use one that was properly fitted to his chest and helmet?
    HANS now has an adjustable one, which is pretty nice if you move between production cars to formula type cars.
    I have a HANS and wish I had one of the other systems (safety solutions) that don't rely on the harness to be effective. HANS make ya 'look' cool, but there are better systems that allow you to move your head left/right.

    Here's an interesting read on HANS and other head & neck safety systems: Head & neck restraint systems and the politics behind them - Honda-Tech
    Brought to you by the good folks over at H-T: Road racing forum.


    Also, interesting video from that HT thread: http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Video/SFIBoth.mpg
    Obviously not an end-all, be-all to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of a HANS, but certainly something that one should be aware of.
    Last edited by Kam; 12-07-2012 at 03:20 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    What are the basic guidelines,

    and are these devices attached independently of the seat,

    so that "anyone" could use one that was properly fitted to his chest and helmet?
    http://argent.fia.com/web/fia-public.nsf/D05EDB3E8EF2FB81C12573150041C255/$FILE/Guide_HANS_2007.pdf

    yes but the seat and harness installation are critical to hans function see above

    yes

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kam View Post
    HANS now has an adjustable one, which is pretty nice if you move between production cars to formula type cars.
    I have a HANS and wish I had one of the other systems (safety solutions) that don't rely on the harness to be effective. HANS make ya 'look' cool, but there are better systems that allow you to move your head left/right.

    Here's an interesting read on HANS and other head & neck safety systems: Head & neck restraint systems and the politics behind them - Honda-Tech
    Brought to you by the good folks over at H-T: Road racing forum.


    Also, interesting video from that HT thread: http://www.isaacdirect.com/images/Video/SFIBoth.mpg
    Obviously not an end-all, be-all to the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of a HANS, but certainly something that one should be aware of.
    At risk of starting a nead neck restraint wholly war:

    You are probably referring to the R3 and "does not rely on the harness to be effective" makes no sense in basilar skull fracture. NHR are only for one injury type that is the prevention of fatal BSF. If you did not have your harness on and hit a wall that was fatal you would be just as dead with a HANS as an R3. Many point to some NHR action of the R3 and stock seat belts. Guess what people do not suffer BSF with stock seatbelts. Those who promote the benefits of R3 with stock seatbelts just don't understand the physics of adding an R3 that safety system or choose to ignore it for positive marketing.

    There is only politics of the other non-HANS makers trying to get a piece of the pie. The bottom line is that there is no price advantage of one device over the other. The only device to have an over riding amount of positive safety data is HANS. They have real data from real crashes from pros crashing at high speeds with black box recorders. No one else has the data that proves their devices like HANS. Why would anyone buy any other device? All the other guys have is sled data.

    Similarly Issac has no real world data of HANS volume and does not meet SFI 38.1 specs and you can't even use them for club racing with clubs that demand 38.1 devices. It is a cool elegant design and I used one for a time in my HPDE days when hans was not available to us bottom feeders, but if you even think you might move past HPDE, the minimum is a 38.1 device.

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    After reading up on it, I get out of this is. If you have stock 3 point with an air bag you don't need a hans as much because the air bag and stretching of the belt help reduce the impact. But if you have a harness system that its a very good idea because your body will not move but your head will since it is not restrained, causing the head injury.

    Is this correct ?
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    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    "does not rely on the harness to be effective" makes no sense in basilar skull fracture.
    My comment was a bit, short... but, the HANS requires a harness to be useful, and as I understand it, the safety solutions do not. This is not to say that a harness isn't a good idea, just that, as a function of the device to perform properly and as designed, a harness is required on one device and not the other.
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    The Hans goes under the shoulder belts, the Safety Solutions does not. It's one thing I don't like about the Hans.
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    Sorry kam. As I understand the dynamics of basilar skull fracture, the only reason to accept the compromises of wearing a head neck restraint, respectfully I posit to you that an R3 without a harness is no more useful than wearing a condom when no sexual activity is expected. VD is thusly prevented but by not having sex not because you have worn a condom.
    Richard EVO likes this.

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    Kam
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    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    Sorry kam. As I understand the dynamics of basilar skull fracture, the only reason to accept the compromises of wearing a head neck restraint, respectfully I posit to you that an R3 without a harness is no more useful than wearing a condom when no sexual activity is expected. VD is thusly prevented but by not having sex not because you have worn a condom.
    Uh, uhm... Not sure where you're confused or why you don't understand what I'm saying...but, I'll try one last time and maybe you'll get what I'm saying. I don't disagree with you about how those injuries occur, only this...
    1. HANS, requires a harness to be effective.
    2. Safety Solutions/R3, does not.
    Caveat: you should still use a harness*

    [This added so you don't keep bringing in semantics]
    *Only use a harness in a vehicle that has the necessary safety equipment to do so (cage, proper harness bar, proper mounting, etc). It's not recommended to use harnesses on the street. Y-shoulder belts are a bad idea. Shoe-string harnesses are also a bad idea. Tape is right out.

    Hopefully I covered it.
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    I'm trying to figure out what's needed in order to add a Hans to a car. So far my understanding is that the following are needed:

    1) roll cage or bar that can provide proper mounting
    2) harness
    3) seat designed to work with a hans
    4) the hans device itself

    Is that right or am I missing something?
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    ^^^ You need a roll cage to race, but it has no interaction with the Hans. Harness needs to have 2-inch shoulder belts to go over Hans (there might be a Hans that can handle 3-inch belts, not sure--my Hans is for an open wheel car with 2-inch belts). Seat has nothing to do with Hans, I think any proper racing seat will work. Plus, you need helmet that has a hole in each side to accept the Hans mounting hardware. Be sure you get the correct angle Hans, or the new adjustable one.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 12-12-2012 at 07:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigHapa View Post
    I'm trying to figure out what's needed in order to add a Hans to a car. So far my understanding is that the following are needed:

    1) roll cage or bar that can provide proper mounting
    2) harness
    3) seat designed to work with a hans
    4) the hans device itself

    Is that right or am I missing something?
    Yes basically you got it. HANS recs are 3" shoulders but there are 2" Hans spec belts that some like because they feel better to the driver but are not scientifically proven to retain the hans better. Also the 2/3" belts means you must wear a hans so if you got a friend driving your car he has to wear a hans. There is also a double shoulder belt hans specifc harness that sandwich captures the hans and you can wear that setup with or without the hans if you share a car and the other driver has no hans. Almost any seat will work with hans. Some seat that are really upright mkae your neck hurt with hans. So you recline the seat and increase the layback 10-15* and you are golden. You can also buy a hans seat like the recaro hans and it is cutout in the neck area. Hans was designed first with open cockpit cars which are monocoque designs. tintops are totally different environment. hans needs the aberant forces to be controled fore and aft for best function. people complain hans is no good for side impacts. they are right but hans is for basialr skull fracture and you don't get that in side impacts you die from something else. Fia seats are designed cupped to hold the body from lateral movement. they help hans function vs a stock flat big a$$ mercedes seat. then fia plastic seats with halos called halo seats retain you more and help hans function better. then full containment seats like nascar butler built seats are the ultimate turning the tintop car into a monocoque environment for the driver. that makes hans function the best and makes the safest environment for the driver. One complaint on hans type devices is the wing popping out. This is also reduced when proper install is done and the best seats are used. But the tests show that the wing can pop out and the collar retained by the harness and the hans function is still intact. It can just be disconcerting to have your belts slide off the tail and the average joe will wonder if this thing is still going to work. Hans says it will and I have not heard of people dying because the tail popped out. The downsides to ever containing and confining seats are increasing cockpit space taken up and ingress/egress issues. Finally, sidenets complement and complete the cockpit and 6 point hanresses are prefered over 5 points.

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