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Thread: Guys, it's the beginning of the end for Fun driving as we know it!!!

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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    Default Guys, it's the beginning of the end for Fun driving as we know it!!!

    Nissan to offer steer-by-wire systems in some Infiniti cars -- Engadget



    Steer-by-wire + Throttle-by-wire + CVT transmission is was nightmares are made of.

    Do you think this tech will trickle down to all of our beloved rare breed of "sports cars"? The reason i put sports cars in quotes is because Nissan thinks that the Juke is a legitimate sports cars. Makes me want to cry.

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    Senior Member DutchOven's Avatar
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    Is this the same as electronic power steering? Because the new porsche 911 has it and reviewers seem to like it.
    -Kevin M.

    2010 Subaru WRX

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    Senior Member azngotmilk's Avatar
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    eps and steer by wire aren't the same

    i was under the impression that steer by wire eliminates the mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering
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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azngotmilk View Post
    eps and steer by wire aren't the same

    i was under the impression that steer by wire eliminates the mechanical connection between the steering wheel and the steering
    You are completely correct, there is no mechanical linkage that runs from the steering to the Wheel. There is the wheel, then a wire, and the wire connects to the electronic power steering. Imagine real life driving with a Playstation Steering Wheel. Theoretically the wheel can be placed anywhere on the car. This makes it easier to have a RHD and a LHD car made, but if i want to play with a simulator wheel, i'm going to do it on a Playstation, not in real life. What happens if the power goes out. Then what do you do?! What about EMI? all of the scary dangerous possibilities i can imagine.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    stop whining !!

    exhaust sound you hear is not real (see BMW M5), it is played through speakers
    cars shift themselves (and faster than you can shift yourselves)
    cars throttle themselves, most cars today are throttle by wire
    cars brake themselves (see Mercedes and a few others)
    cars modulate brake themselves (called ABS)
    cars rev matching themselves (see 370z)
    cars adjust a/c and heater by themselves (most cars now)
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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    stop whining !!

    exhaust sound you hear is not real (see BMW M5), it is played through speakers
    cars shift themselves (and faster than you can shift yourselves)
    cars throttle themselves, most cars today are throttle by wire
    cars brake themselves (see Mercedes and a few others)
    cars modulate brake themselves (called ABS)
    cars rev matching themselves (see 370z)
    cars adjust a/c and heater by themselves (most cars now)
    LOL, yeah. But if any one of those systems fail, you could always steer yourself to safety. That above all else scares me the most.

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    Senior Member azngotmilk's Avatar
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    i'd be sad if my m5 speakers didn't work.

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    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    There are always system redundancies and backups for failures like this. Large aircraft have been flying by wire since at least the early 80s.
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Yep, it's the future. However, there are some interesting packaging possibilities when you eliminate all mechanical and hydraulic linkages between driver and car.

    For example, everything that makes the car do what it does can be down in the chassis and you could do a cabin swap to turn a 4 seater into a 2 seater hatchback in a matter of minutes.

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    I think at least part of what Manny objects to — or is whining about — is the lack of feedback through the steering wheel in such a system.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    "Warning - this steering rack cannot be de-powered"

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    JJ1
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    I imagine companies that are making cars where people pay for feel (Porsche), they could make the feedback at least close to that of EPS. And if not, it should be at least as good as the Logitech.

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    Chest hair required Olitho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neocataboi View Post
    You are completely correct, there is no mechanical linkage that runs from the steering to the Wheel. There is the wheel, then a wire, and the wire connects to the electronic power steering. Imagine real life driving with a Playstation Steering Wheel. Theoretically the wheel can be placed anywhere on the car. This makes it easier to have a RHD and a LHD car made, but if i want to play with a simulator wheel, i'm going to do it on a Playstation, not in real life. What happens if the power goes out. Then what do you do?! What about EMI? all of the scary dangerous possibilities i can imagine.
    I am with you on this given how many times my ABS electronics go out... once or twice a year for me.
    To the right of The Sheriff. Isn't everyone?

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    I think at least part of what Manny objects to — or is whining about — is the lack of feedback through the steering wheel in such a system.
    Agreed, I'm just pointing out the potential it has if they can solve the fundamental safety issues.

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    The fly by wire systems in aircraft have been more trouble free than the previous hudraulic systems.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    I think at least part of what Manny objects to — or is whining about — is the lack of feedback through the steering wheel in such a system.
    Good point. But, at least in principal, they could program feedback into a second steering wheel motor. Regardless, there have been several articles over the past few days that highlight GM's efforts to recruit huge numbers of programmers and computer engineers.

    And let's not forget Google's driverless car. Future scenario: A driverless car qualifies for F1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    stop whining !!

    exhaust sound you hear is not real (see BMW M5), it is played through speakers
    cars shift themselves (and faster than you can shift yourselves)
    cars throttle themselves, most cars today are throttle by wire
    cars brake themselves (see Mercedes and a few others)
    cars modulate brake themselves (called ABS)
    cars rev matching themselves (see 370z)
    cars adjust a/c and heater by themselves (most cars now)
    Most of those things are a travesty, and signs that the automotive industry in a downward spiral for at least 6 years, along with complicated hybrid systems, 87 airbags, and "technology" that is sold to car buyers now like cup holders used to be. It's nice to get into a '92 NSX and actually drive it (yeah, it has ABS, but that one is not a travesty, and I'm OK with automatic a/c).
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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    That is just another advertisement trick from Nissan,just like the recent slogan heard on the radio and TV-"Most advanced car manufacturer in America" Nothing could be further than the truth
    BMW and Mercedes(and probably many other manufacturers) are ready to implement drive by wire for years,but the law doesnt allow removing the physical link in the steering system.Neither here,nor in Europe.
    On the other hand the BMW active steering system is so engineered that the computer [may] have upper hand than the actual driver turning the wheel.It could change the steering ratio infinitely ,even to negative, in a matter of miliseconds,and the actual steering wheel could be used only as a support to what the computer wants to do.

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    Faster than Oli jimt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by b3d3g1 View Post
    There are always system redundancies and backups for failures like this. Large aircraft have been flying by wire since at least the early 80s.
    True, but I doubt our cars will have triple redudant control systems like the Boeing and Airbus jets do.

    Im with you, I want some sort of solid metal connection between my steering wheel and tires.
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    Senior Member pucsicsal's Avatar
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    It's a just a little conspiracy to try to get us out of racing our production cars and get us into purpose-built race cars and open-wheelers

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