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Thread: GTA Super Lap Battle

  1. #81
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Hey Cody, congrats on your results @ SLB, well done!
    I think the biggest problem is that while you're not pushing the envelope of what is allowed by the rules, it _can_ be done and at that point the car you started with has a huge advantage over most other platforms.
    In a sense, the potential of the car can make almost every other car irrelevant, and it is my belief that this is true to every class.
    If you start with a car that runs 1:5x's around BRP in showroom stock form, making it go 1:4x's takes a lot less work than making a car that runs 2:1x's in stock form go 1:4x's.. this can really ruin it for a lot of tuners, and this IS a tuner driven series.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 11-25-2014 at 10:15 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnk.cali View Post
    c7 z and viper need more tire than a 285 in the rear. so no street class for them. I don't understand this whole thing people saying that pushrod shouldn't be allowed.. (I have the c6 z that won limited rwd) i make 500whp and 500 lbs of torque, I'm competing against someone that has more power. how is it that I'm the one with the advantage? professional awesome was probably making 650. easy. maybe I'm an idiot? but can someone fill me in on this?
    It's the history of "Time Attack". Originally conceived by option magazine in Japan so tuner shops could demonstrate their wares. One shop might be focused on aero, another drivetrain, another boosted power or engine swaps. They all advertised in the very popular and iconic Option print magazine. This is pre-interwebs. To accommodate the tuner/advertisers, the rules were basically open. The cars were all basically street cars so lasting more than one lap or having safety equipment for W2W was moot. When Time Attack was imported to the US in the late 90's, we had already been doing Time Trials with SCCA local clubs for 60 years. But SCCA ain't JDM yo and SCCA drivers don't read tuner magazines. Thus, "Time Attack" was a separate form of motorsport.

    The promoters here in the US have largely been media organizations, for the same reasons. Get their advertisers some exposure and raise the value of that ad space. Raise interest in that paper and now online magazine. If you make some money on the event as well, that's a bonus. As long as there are tuner shops not otherwise involved in W2W but heavily involved in mega hp race cars, willing to spend $100k-$250k on time trial cars for $500 prizes, the sport will continue.

    My gripe is that it places more a premium on budget than W2W where we have to run for hours, not just one lap. I'd like to become more involved but the open engine rules require expensive builds that don't pay for themselves unless you are in the business of selling mega hp cars or powertrains.

    Which brings me to pushrods. It's simple man, Corvettes are effective, fast and utterly American. Haters gonna hate.
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  3. #83
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnk.cali View Post
    c7 z and viper need more tire than a 285 in the rear. so no street class for them. I don't understand this whole thing people saying that pushrod shouldn't be allowed.. (I have the c6 z that won limited rwd) i make 500whp and 500 lbs of torque, I'm competing against someone that has more power. how is it that I'm the one with the advantage? professional awesome was probably making 650. easy. maybe I'm an idiot? but can someone fill me in on this?
    You are right. The rules are so open/random that it can hardly matter at this point what the engine is. Does a pushrod NA V8 have any advantage of a twin turbo V6? Unlikely.

  4. #84
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    On a touge battle, a miata could beat high hp heavy awd cars.

    For time attack, no one can really believe a miata can be competitive. V8 pushrods were first let into SLB last year. This is the 2nd year pushrods have been allowed. BAM 2 rwd records have fallen in only 2yrs from vettes. And those vettes have not been maxed out completely or made to the maximum of rules yet. Cody easily could have another 100-200whp if he so chooses and still be well within rules. Same with Rif. Just interesting to see. I am not for or against them, just stating what has developed from allowing them.

    It takes more money and development for 4cyl NA tuner cars to beat them like in Emilio's example. Taking a s2k/240sx/frs/brz/any japanese 4cyl rwd car and fight against a v8 vette with 450-500whp in the same class. Turbo 4cyl cars might have less trouble.

    They should make 12 classes for time attack so its fair. Combine all the FR/AWD/FF classes.

    Street Tire
    4cyl NA
    4cyl FI
    6cyl NA
    6cyl FI
    8cyl NA
    8cyl FI

    R Comp Tire
    4cyl NA
    4cyl FI
    6cyl NA
    6cyl FI
    8cyl NA
    8cyl FI

    or

    1 Tire
    4cyl NA <2.0L (miata, ae86, civics)
    4cyl NA >2.0L (s2k, frs, brz, 240sx)
    4cyl FI <2.0L (boosted miata, boosted civics)
    4cyl FI >2.0L (sti, evo, wrx, ralliart, boosted s2k)
    6cyl NA <3.0L
    6cyl NA >3.0L (350z, nsx, e46 m3, porsche gt3, porsche carrera, some mercedes and bimmer cars)
    6cyl FI >3.0L (supra, GTR, 335i, porsche turbo)
    6cyl FI <3.0L (M4)
    8cyl NA <4.0L (some mercedes and bimmer cars)
    8cyl NA >4.0L (c4-c6 vette, mustang, camaro, e92 m3, some mercedes and bimmer cars)
    8cyl FI <4.0L
    8cyl FI >4.0L (ZR1, Z06 2015 models)

    I dunno just spitballing. You get the idea.
    Last edited by Pure EvoIX; 11-25-2014 at 02:06 PM.
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    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    You're asking for classes where people leave with a trophy in hand because they're against no one or some random person who's never driven a car before. Retarded.
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    Do you understand?

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tq3z View Post
    You're asking for classes where people leave with a trophy in hand because they're against no one or some random person who's never driven a car before. Retarded.
    or else low power low displacement miata people complain why they not competitive when get tossed in unlimited class cuz of glovebox or tires.

    If we just made 3 total classes.

    Street
    Modified
    Unlimited

    guess what, all the non turbo, low hp 4cyl cars whine and end up not showing up anymore because no point.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

  7. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cnk.cali View Post
    c7 z and viper need more tire than a 285 in the rear. so no street class for them. I don't understand this whole thing people saying that pushrod shouldn't be allowed.. (I have the c6 z that won limited rwd) i make 500whp and 500 lbs of torque, I'm competing against someone that has more power. how is it that I'm the one with the advantage? professional awesome was probably making 650. easy. maybe I'm an idiot? but can someone fill me in on this?
    We've run the 700whp+ RWD FXMD NSX on 275 width rear Hankook C91s. You can make any tire size work if you set the car up around it and only do a lap or two at a time.

    I don't feel a Viper (especially an ACR) or Z06 with 285s in street class is in the spirit of the series. Heck i'd love to take a ACR-X and set some Street class records, but how fair is that or fun is that for most 'import' guys with S2000s, 370Zs, etc... to have a Viper or Vette as competition?

    The whole point of banning pushrod motors is due to their displacement advantage and away from the 'import' theme. A C7 corvette with twin turbos, boost by gear and TCS would be unstoppable and would kill the class. A C7 Z06 with few mods would probably destroy Limited RWD records.

    Import Tuning is a dying genre, so maybe the doors need to be opened to allow everything in to fill the grids. Maybe the heyday is over. Maybe i wont come back. I don't know... I don't have a ton of confidence given its current state and it hurts to say that...
    Last edited by Stuntman; 11-25-2014 at 02:08 PM.

  8. #88
    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Why not just make classes based specifically on power/weight, and add points for tire compound, tire width, and all "mods," whether they are factory or not, such as wings, dams, splitters, underbody panels?

    Further, some global rules can be enforced: stock body appearance, no tube frames, stock interior forward of the driver. Lastly, let there be an "unlimited" class that has no rules or power/weight restriction. I want to see Billy setting track records in that expensive NSX...

    Some people might be irked to see a Miata with a splitter and wing competing with a stock bodied Elise, or a raced out evo competing with a stingray. But **** them. Do you want to race, or do you want to have a gay parade?

    Don't tell me the series can't bring a mobile dyno and scales for disputes...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Why not just make classes based specifically on power/weight, and add points for tire compound, tire width, and all "mods," whether they are factory or not, such as wings, dams, splitters, underbody panels?

    Further, some global rules can be enforced: stock body appearance, no tube frames, stock interior forward of the driver. Lastly, let there be an "unlimited" class that has no rules or power/weight restriction. I want to see Billy setting track records in that expensive NSX...

    Some people might be irked to see a Miata with a splitter and wing competing with a stock bodied Elise, or a raced out evo competing with a stingray. But **** them. Do you want to race, or do you want to have a gay parade?

    Don't tell me the series can't bring a mobile dyno and scales for disputes...
    You pretty much just described NASA's TT rule book...

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    Three Vette's show up this year out of 62 teams?

    Anyway, WTAC actually gives awards for fastest NA FWD, FI FWD etc. Maybe we should do that to? For example, sure having an NA FWD probably won't make you an outright winner, but at least you get some kudos. People still have pride in building their own specific make and model and whether it's NA or FI, Miata etc.

    Most people don't Time Attack for the money, I would figure that's pretty obvious. We are all gear heads that love building and driving nutty cars. Most Club Racing cars are boring IMO. I started off as a gear head, who happened to also love driving.
    SuperMiata S2 Class #33

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    Why not just make classes based specifically on power/weight, and add points for tire compound, tire width, and all "mods," whether they are factory or not, such as wings, dams, splitters, underbody panels?

    Further, some global rules can be enforced: stock body appearance, no tube frames, stock interior forward of the driver. Lastly, let there be an "unlimited" class that has no rules or power/weight restriction. I want to see Billy setting track records in that expensive NSX...

    Some people might be irked to see a Miata with a splitter and wing competing with a stock bodied Elise, or a raced out evo competing with a stingray. But **** them. Do you want to race, or do you want to have a gay parade?

    Don't tell me the series can't bring a mobile dyno and scales for disputes...
    They have that....its called NASA TT.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Johns_EvoIXSE View Post
    Three Vette's show up this year out of 62 teams?

    Anyway, WTAC actually gives awards for fastest NA FWD, FI FWD etc. Maybe we should do that to? For example, sure having an NA FWD probably won't make you an outright winner, but at least you get some kudos. People still have pride in building their own specific make and model and whether it's NA or FI, Miata etc.

    Most people don't Time Attack for the money, I would figure that's pretty obvious. We are all gear heads that love building and driving nutty cars. Most Club Racing cars are boring IMO. I started off as a gear head, who happened to also love driving.
    Race cars are boring (the budget classes anyway) because it's the racing that makes them exciting, packing up after qualifying sounds boring to me, to each their own.
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    Quote Originally Posted by schrotacular View Post
    You pretty much just described NASA's TT rule book...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    They have that....its called NASA TT.
    Does it work?
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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Yes, but why re-invent the wheel.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pure EvoIX View Post
    Yes, but why re-invent the wheel.
    Sounds like a good argument for emulating their rule-set then. Why use another set of rules that sucks?

    If they really want it to be tuner-based then just add the following rules:
    1. No american cars.
    2. Every entrant must have a NOS sticker.
    3. Every entrant must have neon lights.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Seth, you're trolling and your car is a paper weight.

    stfu.jpg


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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Seth, you're trolling and your car is a paper weight.

    Attachment 8139

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    Power to weight makes too much sense. It's better that all w2w racecars get treated as unlimited, even though they only have fractions of the power of the "street class" cars.

    You know, because tuner.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Power to weight makes too much sense. It's better that all w2w racecars get treated as unlimited, even though they only have fractions of the power of the "street class" cars.

    You know, because tuner.
    Well, everyone knows that removing the dash or using plastic for the windshield costs more and makes a car way faster than adding 2 turbos and adding a wing the size of Nebraska.
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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Funniest part about tech @ SLB was that after all the jokes about that stupid glove box rule, Ryan failed tech because of the glove box.

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