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Thread: Grip vs Longevity 2013: Help me sort the current batch of tire options

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    enjoys driving fast Jack Olsen's Avatar
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    Default Grip vs Longevity 2013: Help me sort the current batch of tire options



    I'd like to take the tires in this list and resort them into two lists, one with the quickest-lap-time tire listed first, and one with the longest-lifespan tire listed first.

    This is the idea:

    1. 'Quickest tire'
    2. 'Second Quickest tire'
    3. 'Third Quickest tire'
    4. 'Fourth Quickest tire'
    ...

    and

    1. 'Longest Lasting tire'
    2. 'Second Longest Lasting tire'
    3. 'Third Longest Lasting tire'
    4. 'Fourth Longest Lasting tire'
    ...

    This is the list (sorted alphabetically):

    Advan A048
    BFGoodrich G-Force R1
    Hankook Ventus Z-214
    Hoosier R6
    Kumho Ecsta v710
    Maxxis Victra RC-1
    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup
    Nitto NT01
    Toyo Proxes RA1


    Some of the hierarchy seems obvious. But some of these tires are new.

    If there are other tires that should be added to the list, I'm interested in that, too.

    I'm going to post it on a few different forums and then tally up the consensus.
    Last edited by Jack Olsen; 07-09-2013 at 11:15 AM.

  2. #2
    The Real Captain Slow Red_5's Avatar
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    In comparing the other tires on the list, maybe include the Toyo RR either in addition to or instead of the RA1.
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    The Hankooks come in at least 3 different compounds, soft, medium and hard.
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    Sir flink
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    Hoosier A6!

    Quickest tire
    Six sessions

  5. #5
    enjoys driving fast Jack Olsen's Avatar
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    If you trust UTQG treadware ratings, then the two lists would look like this, more or less.

    Lap time and grip:

    Kumho Ecsta v710 (30)
    BFGoodrich G-Force R1 (40)
    Hankook Ventus Z-214 (40)
    Hoosier R6 (40)
    Advan A048 (60)
    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (80)
    Maxxis Victra RC-1 (100)
    Nitto NT01 (100)
    Toyo Proxes RA1 (100)

    Long-lasting:

    Toyo Proxes RA1 (100)
    Nitto NT01 (100)
    Maxxis Victra RC-1 (100)
    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (80)
    Advan A048 (60)
    Hoosier R6 (40)
    Hankook Ventus Z-214 (40)
    BFGoodrich G-Force R1 (40)
    Kumho Ecsta v710 (30)

    Still, that doesn't seem entirely accurate.
    Last edited by Jack Olsen; 07-09-2013 at 02:20 PM.

  6. #6
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flink View Post
    Hoosier A6!

    Quickest tire
    Six sessions
    BFG R1-S are a bit quicker, as are Hankook Z214's in C91 compound. C91's are basically one heat cycle tires though.

    My ratings, which may or may not be entirely accurate

    Lap time and grip:

    Hoosier R6 (40)
    BFGoodrich G-Force R1 (40)
    Kumho Ecsta v710 (30)
    Hankook Ventus Z-214 C71
    Advan A048 (60)
    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (80)
    Maxxis Victra RC-1 (100)
    Nitto NT01 (100)
    Toyo Proxes RA1 (100)

    Long-lasting:

    Nitto NT01 (100)
    Toyo Proxes RA1 (100)
    Maxxis Victra RC-1 (100)
    Michelin Pilot Sport Cup (80)
    Advan A048 (60)
    Hankook Ventus Z-214 C51
    BFGoodrich G-Force R1 (40)
    Kumho Ecsta v710 (30)
    Hoosier R6 (40)
    Last edited by emilio700; 07-09-2013 at 03:54 PM.
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  7. #7
    Sir flink
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    v710's are faster than R6 and BFG R1! Unless it's 80F or warmer, in which case v710's feel like they're made of vaseline (omg, it was like driving in the rain). Good cold weather tire.

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Would love for you to add the Hankook TD aka Z221, the Toyo RR, BFG R1S, and Hoosier A6
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Also when you say long lasting and high grip. What is the car reference and weight. It is possible some tires suit lighter cars better than heavier cars. Meaning heavier cars could see higher wear than lighter cars. Oh yea, can't forget Toyo R888.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
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    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
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    I think the type of heat cycle you put on a tire greatly affects it's longevity. For example, I had 3 sets of tires at LS

    1. A6 stickers

    2. 2 h/c scrubs from Buttonwillow qual and race in 100F June conditions

    3. 7-8 h/c scrubs from T-hill qual, Miller qual, BRP practice, and LS practice).

    Obviously the stickers were freaking awesome. But what was interesting was my 2 h/c scrubs from BRP were absolutely trashed grip wise. It took me 5 laps of sliding and getting sideways to put down a 1:35.0 lap in qual on those tires when I did a 1:34.1 on the 8 h/c scrubs the same day with no drama.

    From your list, I did really like the NT01's for an all around hpde tire.
    Last edited by redtopz; 07-09-2013 at 05:41 PM.
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    Having been ignored, I repeat that the Hankook Ventus Z214 compounds C51 and C71 are different. C51 is more like Hoosier R6, and C71 is more like Hoosier A6. There is also a C91 compound that is for serious Time Attack competition, and is good for about 2 laps.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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  12. #12
    Sir flink
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    The Z214's actually come in three compounds: C51 (like an R6), C71 (like an A6) and C91 (even stickier and softer than the C71).

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    Anyone have experience with the Hankook TDs vs NT01s.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

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    Jack, don't you drive your car back and forth to the track? If you're not trailering, considering a tire that heat cycles out like an R6 or a C71 Hankook is quite a poor idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flink View Post
    The Z214's actually come in three compounds: C51 (like an R6), C71 (like an A6) and C91 (even stickier and softer than the C71).
    Is there an echo in here?
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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  16. #16
    Sir flink
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    My sparkling wit is underappreciated around here.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flink View Post
    v710's are faster than R6 and BFG R1! Unless it's 80F or warmer, in which case v710's feel like they're made of vaseline (omg, it was like driving in the rain). Good cold weather tire.
    Yah, could be. I never did direct back to back or run any two of these with the exact same setup. NASA rates the R1 as a 13pt tire while the V710 and R6 are 10pt tire. The R1 being faster than the V710 and R6 is an opinion shared by many in the NASA paddock, YMMV.

    NASA's tire ratings as of Q2/13

    A. TIRES:
    1) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1S, Hoosier Wet DOT (if used
    in dry conditions—see section 5.6) +15

    2) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: BFG R1, Goodyear Eagle RS AC (auto-
    cross), Hankook Z214 (C90 & C91 compounds only), Hoosier A6 +13

    3) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires and those with a UTQG treadwear rating of
    40 or less not listed otherwise in these rules: Maxxis RC-1 (examples: Goodyear Eagle RS,
    Hankook Z214 (C71, C70, C51, C50), Hoosier R6, Kumho V710, etc. (note: Grand Am
    Continental Tire Sports Car Challenge tires OK) +10

    4) The following DOT-approved R-compound tires: Toyo Proxes RR, Hankook TD +9

    5) DOT-approved R-compound tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 50 to 130 (ex. Kumho
    V700, Michelin Pilot Sport Cup, Nitto NT01, Pirelli PZero Corsa, Toyo R888, Toyo RA-1,
    Yokahama A048, etc) +7

    6) DOT-approved (non-R-compound) tires with a UTQG treadwear rating of 120-200
    (examples: Toyo R1R, Dunlop Direzza Sport Z1 Star Spec, Bridgestone Potenza RE070,
    Kumho Ecsta XS, Yokohama Advan A046 & Neova AD08, Hankook R-S3) +2
    7) Non-DOT-approved racing slicks +30 (of any origin--re-caps and re-treads are not permitted)
    Loose Caboose likes this.
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    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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    they move RC-1 from +7 to +10?

    how many points for A6?
    Jaku 峠

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    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
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    so Maxxis RC-1 is faster than Hankook TD? wut? lol
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

  20. #20
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    RC-1 has not been tested by NASA yet. All new R comps get 10 pts by default until they are tested by NASA.
    WWW.949RACING.COM
    SuperMiata

    Aside from their cost I never understood why people race them.
    But obviously I just dont get it. -fatbillybob

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