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Thread: This is golden age of trackable OEM cars...

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    Quote Originally Posted by fiftyunofifty View Post
    Not as bad as the STI. I have upgraded my TMIC and have an oil cooler and have run in temps over 100 and no issues.
    Well yes, they both need oil cooler and aftermarket radiator(STI) for around 1000 to survive in a track day. Advanced driver could easily overheat a stock STI within 2 laps in a 90F day. It's not a perfect car. As for ej257, it's far from reliable side but I think stock engine is good for at least a few years of track days. Don't mod it. It's still not a turbocharged rotary engine.

    Again, it's not a perfect car overall. The nose is too heavy and AWD creates understeer but I still love it.
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    VA(15) STI/FRS

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    Last time I had my car at this track, it hit 116F, and I had everything overheating - RDU, power steering, oil. Yesterday, we had a beautiful day, the high was in the low 80's. The engine oil temperature never got into the red zone, and the power steering never turned off, which was great, however, I still got, at best, 15 minutes out of the RDU before it turned off, which was a bummer.
    I copy/pasted this from the RS Forums. It was the full track at Thunderhill. Another example of the rather significant limitations of the RS. Glad I sold mine. Kinda feel that I got duped - but I guess that't the price of being an early adopter. Based on this, I'm pretty sure BW on a 100F day would be a real disappointment in the RS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoolTech View Post
    Based on this, I'm pretty sure BW on a 100F day would be a real disappointment in the RS.
    even if Billy can do 5 laps, doesn't mean average Joe can. it is weird in these cases that faster drivers actually don't punish the car as hard. May be Billy racing in endurance series has gotten soft ?
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    it is weird in these cases that faster drivers actually don't punish the car as hard.
    In the case of the RS, my instinct (which could be wrong!) is that the more experienced drivers will have the AWD system at its limit - more frequently and longer and this will overheat the PTU more quickly. A novice to intermdediate driver who does not explore the car's limits may get more laps before a failure.

  5. #65
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    I agree it's very cool that major car companies are marketing to people who track their cars. AND major kudos to the American car companies in particular for making some great cars. I love the idea of the rating system too. But I have to say, there's still not really any new cars I'd buy over another used car for the money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    even if Billy can do 5 laps, doesn't mean average Joe can. it is weird in these cases that faster drivers actually don't punish the car as hard. May be Billy racing in endurance series has gotten soft ?
    There's a ton of factors that affect the AWD system. A better driver will trail brake the car and carry more entry speed down to the apex before powering out of the corner. They will also unwind the steering and in general, ave as little steering lock as possible. A less experienced driver will often be taught the "club racing/track day" driving style of doing all the braking in a straight line, then turn in on throttle to the apex. This doubles the amount of time in the corner they are on throttle, and making ng the AWD system work, and typically they will have more steering lock in understeer, over-working the AWD system. So there is some validity in what you're saying.

    So Cool tech, what's your trackday car now, and what was it before you bought the RS? What your track experience? Are you advanced enough to overheat any of these cars?

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    We never had to worry about this issues with a Longhood Air Cooled Porsche....... 115 degrees out at BW also. Prime Grade OEM track car :P
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    You just have to replace cylinder liners when you fry them after 50K
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    How about Lotus Exige/Elise/Evora? I think those should be pretty capable track cars.
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    Vote for 86 and ND miata. They are so easy to control at limits.
    Also, new cars with warranty and lightweight save lots of money. Easy to modify and there are Los of choices. I don't think FF/AWD is for everyone, which means "understeer" and "heaviness" though I track it a lot.

    Price of S2000/Inte r is too high nowadays. A low mile s2000 could cost you around 25K while used FRS is only 15K. S2000 is becoming a collectable car.

    V8 NA is great but it means more $$$z
    Last edited by jqsti2015; 09-09-2017 at 01:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jqsti2015 View Post
    V8 NA is great but it means more $$$z
    https://losangeles.craigslist.org/se...auto_year=2004
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    Price should not decide whether a car makes The List or not. Everyone has their own budget. That some very expensive machinery doesn't work on track as delivered from the factory means competence does not neccesarily discriminate. S2K will probably always be a good choice for a track car, as will a Viper ACR.
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    So Cool tech, what's your trackday car now, and what was it before you bought the RS? What your track experience? Are you advanced enough to overheat any of these cars?
    These days I am MUCH more of an designer/builder than a driver. Once I introduced my son to motorsports (about 6 years ago) he quickly eclipsed my skills and I have been in a support role ever since.

    We've built numerous Ford GT's for the mile venues - and over the past years we have worked on/modified more than 120 unique Ford GTs. When the Boss 302 Mustangs came out in 2012, we purchased an LS and set it and two others up for nearly full-time track duty. Bought a 2013 Laguna Seca as well and though it might be a keeper but as soon as we had data points that a 15 GT Mustang w/PP (IRS) could smoke the Boss 302 times, we picked up a 15. Simultaneously, my son was really getting into racing with Spec Miatas and we more or less got out of chasing street cars for track usage and focused on track-specific cars.

    I didn't purchase the RS with any illusion that it would be a terrific track car as the intent was more of an everyday driver with some occasional track time. You can read my post previously re: my RS conclusions - but I am not a fan.... and I WANTED to like this car. To the degree that folks DO want to use it as a track car, I think most will be very disappointed and worst of all, I don't think it will be easy to "fix" the RS for track usage. We already make an oil cooler kit for the RS - based around the massive Setrab 172 heat exchanger and so that will keep oil temps in check, but the drivetrain over-temp issues are MUCH harder to deal with.

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    I had no idea you didn't like the RS... Glad to hear the car went to someone who wants it.

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    I don't track my wife's RS and I probably never will, but I love that car. Other than the skateboard like ride quality it is a super little car.
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    I like it a lot. I agree and wish the 'soft' mode was the 'stiff' setting and then have an actually softer and more compliant 'soft' setting. It's fine on track unless you're experienced and wanting to do more than a handful of laps. If you want to race or take tracking seriously, buy a different car. If you want a quick hot hatch that can lay down a lap or two, it's a great little car.

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    Personal cars I own and have have tracked with no issues.
    - 2011 Lotus Exige 240
    - 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo
    - 1985 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
    - 1999 Honda Civic Type R
    - 2001 Honda S2000
    - 1986 Toyota Corolla AE86
    - 2001 Lancer Evolution 7 RS
    - 1993 Mazda Miata

    PD: I did not monitor oil and coolant temp for most of them, but at least there was never a CEL, limp mode or evident loss of power / performance. Most of the cars on the list were on upgraded brake pads.
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  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurburgring View Post
    Personal cars I own and have have tracked with no issues.
    - 2011 Lotus Exige 240
    - 2002 Porsche 911 Turbo
    - 1985 Porsche 911 Carrera 3.2
    - 1999 Honda Civic Type R
    - 2001 Honda S2000
    - 1986 Toyota Corolla AE86
    - 2001 Lancer Evolution 7 RS
    - 1993 Mazda Miata

    PD: I did not monitor oil and coolant temp for most of them, but at least there was never a CEL, limp mode or evident loss of power / performance. Most of the cars on the list were on upgraded brake pads.

    That is a good list.

    I am curious. What cars have you tracked that gave you trouble?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olitho View Post
    That is a good list.
    I am curious. What cars have you tracked that gave you trouble?
    Nissan 370Z (auto gearbox oil temp warning)
    Lancer Evo X (double clutch gearbox oil temp warning)
    2016 BMW M4 (CEL - take to service)
    2014 BMW M5 (CEL - engine failure warning)
    2010 Mercedes C63 AMG (CEL - limp mode)
    2005 Porsche Cayman S (huge cloud of blue smoke after a few laps, apparently typical of that model)
    Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8 (barely drivable, awful traction control we could not totally disable)

    Also, I did manage to kill a Miata 1.6 engine at the track, probably due to oil starvation. Stock pan with no baffles, decent tires and suspension, got rod knock, engine disassembly showed damaged rod bearings but crankshaft was in good shape. It had 150k miles.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurburgring View Post
    Also, I did manage to kill a Miata 1.6 engine at the track, probably due to oil starvation. Stock pan with no baffles, decent tires and suspension, got rod knock, engine disassembly showed damaged rod bearings but crankshaft was in good shape. It had 150k miles.

    I don't know anybody with a track/race Miata that has anything but a stock pan. The oil control on Miatas is pretty good, or so I thought.

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