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Thread: FRS Toyota/ BRZ Spoon's thoughts

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    Default FRS Toyota/ BRZ Spoon's thoughts

    Spoon founder talks about the FRS. His reasoning and thoughts why they are not interested in developing it.

    Skip to 3:20


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    Senior Member Matt Andrews's Avatar
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    I'll try not to be too disparaging of Ichi -san. He says that the FR-S is a sporty car, but not a sports car. And the S2k and type R are really close to race cars while the FR-S isn't. I've driven his definition of a "race car", and am not impressed. His dampers are (or were) cheap, and I think rebranded KYB's, his brakes were decent, but clearly made by someone else, his cages were junk, minimal chassi prep, etc. He is more focused on the marketing aspect of his cult following (I don't blame him) than he is in really developing a race car to be fast. There were modifications that had proven on Thunder Hill to improve corner entry, and exit speeds, on the RSX and TSX chassis, but he refused to do them because it was altering what "honda intended". When we ran the 25, he would tell all other drivers to run a specific pace, then go out and thrash the car at a completely different speed. His prerogative as the owner, but I don't take him seriously as a racer.

    I suspect he bought a FR-S to gauge the market's response to his interest and didn't get the feedback he wanted when he slapped his calipers on it, so he is saying its not "fit for his focus"...
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    While I do agree with you, it has to be notes that, a big part of their market is outside of the tuner crowd (not bolt in roll bars and what not). They have been racing in Japanese and US W2W for quite some time, and successfully so. So I wouldn't completely discount his opinion based on the few tuner parts you have been exposed to. As a company, I think they know how to make a car go fast around a circuit, especially in a W2W environment vs Time Attack. I think his opinion on the subject at hand comes from a engineering/gear head stand point (suspension, engine, and ultimately power/weight).

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Andrews View Post
    I'll try not to be too disparaging of Ichi -san. He says that the FR-S is a sporty car, but not a sports car. And the S2k and type R are really close to race cars while the FR-S isn't. I've driven his definition of a "race car", and am not impressed. His dampers are (or were) cheap, and I think rebranded KYB's, his brakes were decent, but clearly made by someone else, his cages were junk, minimal chassi prep, etc. He is more focused on the marketing aspect of his cult following (I don't blame him) than he is in really developing a race car to be fast. There were modifications that had proven on Thunder Hill to improve corner entry, and exit speeds, on the RSX and TSX chassis, but he refused to do them because it was altering what "honda intended". When we ran the 25, he would tell all other drivers to run a specific pace, then go out and thrash the car at a completely different speed. His prerogative as the owner, but I don't take him seriously as a racer.

    I suspect he bought a FR-S to gauge the market's response to his interest and didn't get the feedback he wanted when he slapped his calipers on it, so he is saying its not "fit for his focus"...

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Would have been nice to hear some specifics as to why. Suspension geometry?

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    I would tend to agree with Matt after watching the video. Type R a race car with windshield wipers? Seems to have forgotten that its wrong wheel drive. That the 2.0 in the 86 makes only a few less hp per liter at 7400rpm with lower emissions than the F20C also seems to have escaped Ichi-san. That the 86 actually handles better on stock eco tires than a stock AP1 does on softer OEM tires, similarly oblivious. But hey, Spoon finished 7th in class at T25 a few years back and they'll never let us forget that amazing achievement. Clearly he's passionate about those Honda platforms and that's admirable, but I think his view of reality is a bit skewed.
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    I knew I could with this one.

    You guys are too easy

    However, I know for an absolute fact that the FRS needs more:




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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I would tend to agree with Matt after watching the video. Type R a race car with windshield wipers? Seems to have forgotten that its wrong wheel drive. That the 2.0 in the 86 makes only a few less hp per liter at 7400rpm with lower emissions than the F20C also seems to have escaped Ichi-san. That the 86 actually handles better on stock eco tires than a stock AP1 does on softer OEM tires, similarly oblivious. But hey, Spoon finished 7th in class at T25 a few years back and they'll never let us forget that amazing achievement. Clearly he's passionate about those Honda platforms and that's admirable, but I think his view of reality is a bit skewed.

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    I'm not disparaging the S2000. You guys might recall I had an S200 and loved it enough to make a custom race wheel for it. Watching that video it's very hard not to hear the hyperbole and sour grapes.

    There was another comment about the 86 requiring 3-4x the amount of money spent to make it fast as an S2000. I call bull**** on that as we have already proven otherwise with Matt's car.
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    This just in. Type One interview translator to work on editing Buellers threads.
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    I'm not disparaging the S2000. You guys might recall I had an S200 and loved it enough to make a custom race wheel for it. Watching that video it's very hard not to hear the hyperbole and sour grapes.

    There was another comment about the 86 requiring 3-4x the amount of money spent to make it fast as an S2000. I call bull**** on that as we have already proven otherwise with Matt's car.
    I only put this thing on here for fun.

    If I'm going to be fair, I think the S2000 needs 3-4 times as much Cow Bell as the FRS
    Last edited by markhs2; 01-06-2013 at 07:33 PM.

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    agreed
    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    There was another comment about the 86 requiring 3-4x the amount of money spent to make it fast as an S2000. I call bull**** on that

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    I have seen his BS called out numerous times, even in many of the older Best Motoring videos. A lot of his products are just rebadged items that he charges a lot of extra $ to have his name/seal of approval on them. His "race cars" have never been a good $/value, mostly because of outrageous costs for random items that do not translate well to performance, but a rather a misguided mantra of "pure, NA and true to honda product".

    Off the top of my head, when the Best Motoring crew were here for that tuner time attack, there was that swapped eg (k20 I think) that he said was better than the spoon car. No doubt that the spoon car would cost at least 4 times by their accounts. As well as some kind of k20 video where his civic ended up being more pricey than a much faster, more custom k20 mr2.

    The s2000 and ITR were great machines, but Im sorry nothing close to being portrayed. I have autox-ed an ITR, great car, great chassis and feeback, but sloppy shifter and still not as much feedback as the FRS. Its age shows... I, personally would take an S2000 over an FRS if both were available brand new and not with a 20,000$ price gap. Hence, an FRS is what I will soon be in .

    In Canada an FRS costs the same as an Si and less than the NC.
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    Senior Member Matt Andrews's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dino Antonov View Post
    While I do agree with you, it has to be notes that, a big part of their market is outside of the tuner crowd (not bolt in roll bars and what not). They have been racing in Japanese and US W2W for quite some time, and successfully so. So I wouldn't completely discount his opinion based on the few tuner parts you have been exposed to. As a company, I think they know how to make a car go fast around a circuit, especially in a W2W environment vs Time Attack. I think his opinion on the subject at hand comes from a engineering/gear head stand point (suspension, engine, and ultimately power/weight).
    What other parts are there? for 2 years, I drove for / with Opak racing, spoon's soul distributor in the US. They were also the race shop that supported ichi's 25hr campaigns. I have endless hours in their civic, dc5, fit, and tsx. All right hand drive, all built by type one for campaigning the 25 and USTCC. I am very thankful for the opportunity provided by them to spend so much time I. Race cars under the council of some great coaches and team mates, but the cars were nothing special, in fact, the cars were held back by his "philosophy".
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Andrews View Post
    I'll try not to be too disparaging of Ichi -san.
    I won't. He's an idiot who clearly cares more about marketing than actually developing parts.

    e: Posted before reading the rest of the thread - apparently I'm late to the party
    Last edited by Savington; 01-06-2013 at 11:43 PM.
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    I Dont have anything constructive to add to this thread, but all i can say is that this dude sounds just like these Honda Meet kids that show up to out Miata meets every once in a while. I think i found their source of information, as they think anything from this company is gods gift to making things fast.

    Also, if those Hondas are already race cars with windshield wipers, what does he really do to the cars to make them better?

    This guy just rubbed me the wrong way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Neocataboi View Post
    Also, if those Hondas are already race cars with windshield wipers, what does he really do to the cars to make them better?
    take off the windshield wipers, duh!
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    My race car has windshield wipers.
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    Señor Member b3d3g1's Avatar
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    are they spoon wipers?
    img_7850.jpg
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    Wiper brade. LOL!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Wiper brade. LOL!
    Not just any wiper brade, a Sports Wiper Brade
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