+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2
Results 21 to 33 of 33
Like Tree35Likes

Thread: First session of the day, almost the last

  1. #21
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    by the beach
    Posts
    1,892
    Liked
    1486 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Exactly. And that's why you slow. If he's a racer in a decent class near the front there's a very good chance he will "spin well" and do his job. Some guy in a cobra? No trust for him.

    Jack had YEARS to decide.
    I do not know the braking system in that cobra but realize just about every tin top on track to day came with ABS brakes. They can cause you to unpredictability spin even with "both feet in" as the ABS system fights for traction. You just can't lock your brakes in an ABS car and expect momentum to carry you in a predictable straight line.
    bellwilliam and bawareca like this.

  2. #22
    Spec Backhoe Champion redtopz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Posts
    1,229
    Liked
    981 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Exactly. And that's why you slow. If he's a racer in a decent class near the front there's a very good chance he will "spin well" and do his job. Some guy in a cobra? No trust for him.

    Jack had YEARS to decide.
    +1. You have to assume this is going to happen and prepare for the worst, even in a race. The same argument about not wanting to give up a good lap or race also goes for the guy who went off track possibly trying to make a heroic save and get back on track asap. Slowing up a little is always better than wadding up 2 cars. I don't buy the argument if he slowed down he would have been hit. There was tons of time to slow down and drive down the middle of the track and then get around the cobra on the left or right depending on where he ended up. A last second "dodge" could have been avoided in this case I think, but I'm glad it worked out for Jack!
    bellwilliam likes this.

  3. #23
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by fatbillybob View Post
    I do not know the braking system in that cobra but realize just about every tin top on track to day came with ABS brakes. They can cause you to unpredictability spin even with "both feet in" as the ABS system fights for traction. You just can't lock your brakes in an ABS car and expect momentum to carry you in a predictable straight line.
    That's interesting. Never thought about that.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  4. #24
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by redtopz View Post
    +1. You have to assume this is going to happen and prepare for the worst, even in a race. The same argument about not wanting to give up a good lap or race also goes for the guy who went off track possibly trying to make a heroic save and get back on track asap. Slowing up a little is always better than wadding up 2 cars.!
    I agree. Racers are no better. They are trying to get back on without losing a position.

    At end of the day. I exercise caution in this. I often taken chances, but this type of crash is worst of the worst type crashes. You can end up t-boning someone at 100mph. So even if chance of contact is low, they are deadly.
    hakeem likes this.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  5. #25
    Senior Member bikeindirt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Posts
    380
    Liked
    258 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    That plastic trophy goes for $30,000 and up if it's a good one.
    oh,, good point... $30k, wow that is a lot.... for sure worth risking 2 lives...

    BID

  6. #26
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Posts
    10,979
    Liked
    1477 times

    Default

    I was at WSIR a couple of years ago at an HPDE event, when one of these Cobras was flying down the front straight. Apparently, something in the suspension had just broken, and when the driver hit the brakes before turning into Turn 1, the car just went KABOOM and flew into the air, doing barrel rolls before landing in the infield. That the driver walked away without serious injury (or death) was a miracle. The car was completely destroyed. Those things are dangerous . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  7. #27
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Posts
    6,853
    Liked
    1429 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bikeindirt View Post
    oh,, good point... $30k, wow that is a lot.... for sure worth risking 2 lives...

    BID
    There's always basketball...
    bawareca likes this.

  8. #28
    Track Whore Pure EvoIX's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Fullerton, CA
    Posts
    1,728
    Liked
    299 times

    Default

    Cobra...the snake will always bite you.
    Zhong (Evo IX) | Angry Panda Racing

    1:53.396 @ BRP CW13 - 11/14/13
    1:47.2xx @ Laguna Seca - 11/28/10
    2:03.026 @ Thill CCW Bypass - 12/20/14
    2:05.100 @ CVR CCW - 1/16/11
    1:58.151 @ CVR CW - 5/5/13
    1:25.56x @ WSIR - 10/13/13
    1:23.128 @ SOW CW - 7/27/14
    1:22.2xx @ SOW CCW - 7/26/14
    1:46.0xx @ ACS Roval - 11/23/14
    1:11.299 @ ACS Infield - 5/18/14

    Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at WSIR
    2nd Fastest Limited/Mod Class Evo in Time Attack at BRP 13CW

  9. #29
    enjoys driving fast Jack Olsen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    528
    Liked
    375 times

    Default

    In retrospect, slowing to a stop would have been prudent. But hindsight is kind of a cheat. At the time, everything seemed very manageable. I spoke to the guy afterward to tell him I probably had some decent video of his spin. It wasn't until I watched the footage that I saw how close we came.

    Now, to the extent that there's any 'thinking sequence' in that kind of situation, my sequence would be pretty simple. First, I'm in a rear-engine old 911, so coming off the gas over the summit of 6 would introduce its own set of problems. Plus, lots of guys go off the right side of six and I've never seen anyone come back left like that. If you look at the skid marks at the exit of 9 or 1 (or even 2 and 3) you see where the overcorrection (or whatever) typically produces the swipe across the track. And if you go off the left side of 6-7 (as I did), there's a fair chance of crossing to the right. But my first thought was that he was going to continue to the infield. As it happened, he didn't -- either because he came off the brakes at just the wrong time or because his brakes failed. I turned the car left when he started to come out of the cloud, but I'd be lying if I said that's something I thought about. It happened very quickly and was automatic, not deliberate, behavior.

    One the video, there is a line of fluid leading to his car on the next lap when I pass him. When I spoke to him after the accident, he said the only damage to his car was the dust. So I can't say what that fluid was and I don't think he was aware of any braking failure.

    This was the blue group, so it was in no way a hot lap. I was 10-15 mph off my normal speeds, partly because of the cluster in front of me and partly because I was just warming up the oil to see if I needed to add any. I looked at the data, and I do slow down, although I assume that's once I'm off the track, in spite of the GPS line kind of suggesting otherwise.



    Red is a normal segment, blue is the one with the Cobra.

    It never felt to me like there was much risk of hitting the guy. I had a pretty clear view of the spin, and even when he ended up on the low-percentage trajectory, I was able to get around him. If he'd moved right to left quicker, I could have gone right. If I'd been able to watch the video of his spin before it happened, I would have probably brought the car to a stop when the incident happened -- but again, that's the advantage of hindsight. I wouldn't hold my driving up as any kind of perfect reaction. But if I'd reacted perfectly, it would be the consequence of automatic behavior and good luck.

    What this spin did have is some clear video, which is the main reason I posted it.
    Last edited by Jack Olsen; 03-15-2014 at 12:49 PM.
    bawareca and Gian like this.

  10. #30
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    501
    Liked
    130 times

    Default

    my version:


  11. #31
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    by the beach
    Posts
    1,892
    Liked
    1486 times

    Default

    Video can sometimes be very misleading but...Seems like the Gen2 guy would get my attention back in the pits. He would need to be blind to not see you as he pushed you off the track left. On top of that after pushing you track left he goes back track right to follow the hole of the lead car to pass the miata. What kind of driving is that? The 3 were going pretty good. The miata saw you 3 cars away and totally yielded after the incident. He did not want to play that game. It is nice to have nearly the biggest car on track. My min race weight is 3500lbs!
    krazik likes this.

  12. #32
    Sir flink
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    982
    Liked
    552 times

    Default

    He was looking at the cars in front.

    flink's golden rule: if there are two cars in front in close proximity, all bets are off and you're on your own. Assume nothing!
    bawareca and krazik like this.

  13. #33
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Ventura
    Posts
    1,200
    Liked
    464 times

    Default

    I've been in a few similar encounters on track. It's always easier to say what should have, could have been done. In the moment, it's gas n get past this or slow up and wait for it to pass. Knowing that the car is going to spin as we watch the video we are ready, sooner, to react. Being in the drivers seat is different.

    Some intermediate groups I've seen are better then the experienced groups. So what happened, could have happened to anyone of us. But I'm going to stand by Jack and say he did it right. Often the things you try to avoid brings you closer to it and slowing down can put you right in the middle of it.
    bawareca likes this.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

+ Reply to Thread
Page 2 of 2 FirstFirst 1 2

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts