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Thread: Fatality at Buttonwillow

  1. #21
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Ivo from Renner was my friend and compatriot. He is survived by his wife and 2 twins. Really, really sad indeed.
    RIP Ivo.

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    That's just terrible, I hope we're all able to learn something from this loss to keep us all safer in the future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    That's just terrible, I hope we're all able to learn something from this loss to keep us all safer in the future.
    It is unlikely, because typically no one involved in any way wants to talk about, which in part is a huge mistake in my opinion.
    Knowing the reasons of a fellow competitor's death might not bring him back, but has the potential of saving the next one.
    It's a hard conversation, but the community as a whole could be educated in this very hard lesson, without taking one bit away from the respect to his family and friends.

    It is very sad, I did not know Ivo well but had a chance to chit chat with him a few times in events we both went to, seemed like a really nice guy.
    Race in piece, Ivo.

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    I heard the car had a full roll cage and harnesses. Can someone confirm?

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Yes, it had a full roll cage and harness. Looks like both Ivo and the owner of the car in the co-pilot's seat were not wearing neck restraints. The car hit the wall hard with the right side.

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    So if it hit the corner station, maybe a long tank slapper down the straight there after dropping tires on the exit of the last ess?

    That or something breaking forcing the car to turn is always possible.

    If the car was indeed caged and harnessed, I'd be curious to hear if they both were wearing head and neck devices.

    Edit: Ah.

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    Wow. this is very sad news. RIP Ivo
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    Was this the car?

    ivo.jpg

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Was this the car?

    Attachment 9583
    this one seems to be the only caged E46 i could find on caliphoto's website

    screen-shot-2015-12-07-12.14.11-am.png

    https://www.caliphotography.com/phot...#image=6259143
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    ^ That car doesn't appear to have a passenger seat -
    e46-9.jpg

    There's also this one -
    e46-511.jpg

    Don't know if it that car or not, but it is caged in Red group.
    Attached Images  
    Last edited by Blackbird; 12-07-2015 at 01:44 AM.

  11. #31
    Senior Member e5pr1t's Avatar
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    I was there today, also in the same session. Sad. RIP Ivo.
    Last edited by e5pr1t; 12-07-2015 at 01:43 AM.
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    Terrible news and RIP. Stuff like this really makes you think.
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    Default RIP Ivo

    My heart goes out to both families. RIP Ivo, you will be missed.

    Please people wear your safety gear, it's not worth losing your life over a few hundred $$...

  14. #34
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    So sorry to hear this news. It was a bummer to hear this as we where passing BW on the way home from the NASA25hr and on such a high. Sobering....

    Please make sure to never take your safety in a car as a afterthought. I'm not saying that this car was not properly set up, I'm just saying even then **** happens and its a good reminder that this sport is very dangerous...

    Please... Pay for a great cage, buy a better seat with full head support, 5Pt harness (that is installed correctly) and pay the money for a good quality helmet with neck support system.

    My condolences to his wife and family.

    Hope the second injured person has a speedy recovery
    bellwilliam and Johnny_Se7en like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    There's also this one -
    Attachment 9588
    pretty sure this is the car.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    It is unlikely, because typically no one involved in any way wants to talk about, which in part is a huge mistake in my opinion.
    Knowing the reasons of a fellow competitor's death might not bring him back, but has the potential of saving the next one.
    It's a hard conversation, but the community as a whole could be educated in this very hard lesson, without taking one bit away from the respect to his family and friends.
    I agree. We should talk about it. Hopefully we will scare and save the next person.

    I was at another xtremespeed event at CVR (I only attended 2 XS event this year, and...........) earlier in the year. A S2000 side swiped against concrete barrier at front straight (very similar to this incident, that passenger side hit barrier). XS official did NOT allow pictures taken. I really thought that's very very bad. It was a bad crash, S2000 basically bent in the middle.

    That's a very very bad policy. We should be talking about it, not cover up the incident.

    I've talked to couple of people here, they are afraid of posting about this incident being called a sensationalist asshole (quoting here), or having commercial interest in selling more products.

    I don't have that problem (I make driving simulator's computer, so I do want everybody to drive on SIM only), so I will be the sensationalist asshole here. What can be done to prevent this ?

    1. Will HANS work in this case ? this is a side impact.
    2. This event was a cluster f*ck. There were at least 4 big offs at Phil's Hill just in red group. There was a dangerous pass (even by my standard). I saw 3 spins against wall of Champions just during lunch. for some reason, there was no download meeting in this event.
    3. would Halo seat help in this case ?
    4. would gravel trap in front of corner station worked ? reason I ask this: This is the 3rd fatality against concrete corner station in SOCAL (1st was at SOW event many years ago, 2nd was Chuckawalls last year).
    5. will a newer car helped ? with all those fancy side airbag.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-07-2015 at 12:59 PM.
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  17. #37
    6i9
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    I was in the same session that the crash occurred. Red group around 2:30PM. I was also instructing that day, but did not really get a chance to meet Ivo. I was browsing through the photos from the day and it appears the Black E46 M3 with black wheels that crashed was also in Beginner group pictured here: https://www.caliphotography.com/phot...#image=6256241

    Possibly the owner had Ivo drive in Red group to show what the car was capable of? That's the only reason I can think of for this car that was in Blue group to be in Red group. Also judging from everyone who knew Ivo personally, it seemed unlikely (but not impossible) that the crash was due to driver error. Was the car properly maintained and checked prior to the session? Could it have been mechanical failure? Was another car involved that caused Ivo to have to make irregular corrections? I agree these things need to be discussed. It is unnerving for everyone who has a passion for motorsports and cars but we shouldn't brush the details off.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I agree. We should talk about it. Hopefully we will scare and save the next person.

    I was at another xtremespeed event at CVR (I only attended 2 XS event this year, and...........) earlier in the year. A S2000 side swiped against concrete barrier at front straight (very similar to this incident, that passenger side hit barrier). XS official did NOT allow pictures taken. I really thought that's very very bad. It was a bad crash, S2000 basically bent in the middle.

    That's a very very bad policy. We should be talking about it, not cover up the incident.
    This +1M.
    I've heard about the incident in CVR and how it was handled, it's a terrible policy.
    Only knowledge will give the next guy a fighting chance.
    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    1. Will HANS work in this case ? this is a side impact.
    2. This event was a cluster f*ck. There were at least 4 big offs at Phil's Hill just in red group. There was a dangerous pass (even by my standard). I saw 3 spins against wall of Champions just during lunch. for some reason, there was no download meeting in this event.
    3. would Halo seat help in this case ?
    4. would gravel trap in front of corner station worked ? reason I ask this: This is the 2nd fatality against concrete corner station in SOCAL (1st was at SOW event many years ago).
    5. will a newer car helped ? with all those fancy side airbag.
    The pic of the car (which was confirmed to me as the second one in my post above) shows OEM passenger seat, non-halo driver seat, no window or center nets, no padding seen on the cage.
    We also know that no HNRS worn by either occupant.
    How much of it would have helped?
    Since we don't know what was the cause of death (or the passenger's injury) it's impossible to tell.
    These are just my assumptions, but location and trajectory suggest an angled side impact toward the rear (can anyone confirm?).
    Angled side impacts are very hard to control in terms of restraint (front or rear).
    In rear angle, HNRS is not effective, but a properly mounted quality halo seat with a center net installed wrapping around it would certainly be an effective way to control a head/neck injury.

    I can't remember how the flag station look like these days, but is there no tire wall surrounding it?
    I remember there was a tire barrier before the station at some point and time, a kitty litter trap can be used to slow cars down or to roll them over in some cases.. I have not seen any kind of research or document about this, but it could be that in cars with proper roll over protection rolling is safer than a hard side impact because rolling dissipates energy.

    Without seeing the car, it's hard to know whether there was any issue with the cage (not suggesting that there was), but if there was a problem with the cage knowing about it would make it possible to learn something.
    Last edited by Blackbird; 12-07-2015 at 12:51 PM.

  19. #39
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I agree. We should talk about it. Hopefully we will scare and save the next person.

    I was at another xtremespeed event at CVR (I only attended 2 XS event this year, and...........) earlier in the year. A S2000 side swiped against concrete barrier at front straight (very similar to this incident, that passenger side hit barrier). XS official did NOT allow pictures taken. I really thought that's very very bad. It was a bad crash, S2000 basically bent in the middle.

    That's a very very bad policy. We should be talking about it, not cover up the incident.

    I've talked to couple of people here, they are afraid of posting about this incident being called a sensationalist asshole (quoting here), or having commercial interest in selling more products.

    I don't have that problem (I make driving simulator's computer, so I do want everybody to drive on SIM only), so I will be the sensationalist asshole here. What can be done to prevent this ?

    1. Will HANS work in this case ? this is a side impact.
    2. This event was a cluster f*ck. There were at least 4 big offs at Phil's Hill just in red group. There was a dangerous pass (even by my standard). I saw 3 spins against wall of Champions just during lunch. for some reason, there was no download meeting in this event.
    3. would Halo seat help in this case ?
    4. would gravel trap in front of corner station worked ? reason I ask this: This is the 2nd fatality against concrete corner station in SOCAL (1st was at SOW event many years ago).
    5. will a newer car helped ? with all those fancy side airbag.
    I agree with your point of view and your questions. As sad as it is, it would be nice to understand the circumstances so that we can all learn and, particularly in this case, that the organizers can improve. I don't understand how this sort of chaos manifests at HPDE events without a) download meetings, or b) warnings to the offending drivers. This sort of "the event was out of control" is hardly isolated, so there is a serious problem here that should be looked at by all organizers.
    Last edited by hakeem; 12-07-2015 at 12:54 PM.

  20. #40
    6i9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    I can't remember how the flag station look like these days, but is there no tire wall surrounding it?
    I remember there was a tire barrier before the station at some point and time, a kitty litter trap can be used to slow cars down or to roll them over in some cases.. I have not seen any kind of research or document about this, but it could be that in cars with proper roll over protection rolling is safer than a hard side impact because rolling dissipates energy.

    Without seeing the car, it's hard to know whether there was any issue with the cage (not suggesting that there was), but if there was a problem with the cage knowing about it would make it possible to learn something.
    Can't speak to any details of the crash incident as I did not witness it (I was on the other side of the track at off-ramp) but that flag station where the incident occured does have tire barriers. I just don't know what angle the car impacted the tire barriers or if it happened to hit a part of the station that maybe isn't covered.
    bellwilliam likes this.

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