+ Reply to Thread
Results 1 to 18 of 18
Like Tree9Likes
  • 1 Post By bellwilliam
  • 1 Post By bellwilliam
  • 3 Post By krazik
  • 1 Post By J. Tyler
  • 1 Post By bellwilliam
  • 1 Post By SteveLevin
  • 1 Post By J. Tyler

Thread: F1 oldest pairing.....Alonso and Button in 2015 !!

  1. #1
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default F1 oldest pairing.....Alonso and Button in 2015 !!

    Button is 34
    Alonso is 35






    I made up the part about oldest pairing....... no idea if they are or not.
    bawareca likes this.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  2. #2
    ME920
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    Temple City, CA
    Posts
    2
    Liked
    2 times

    Default

    I'm not opposed to that idea. Both drivers are still competitive. They just need a competitive car. Hopefully Honda is the answer McLaren has been waiting for. We'll see how the cars do during winter testing.

  3. #3
    Senior Member Eric Richter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    217
    Liked
    94 times

    Default

    Although I'm a huge Button fan, I'm surprised by their decision. I thought for sure they would keep Kevin. After reading a few things online, Button has a good relationship with Honda and is popular with the teams current sponsors.

  4. #4
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    Yeap. Button is wildly popular in Japan. Even has a hot Japanese girlfriend.
    bawareca likes this.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  5. #5
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Posts
    501
    Liked
    130 times

    Default

    "he's big in japan"
    Pure EvoIX, Mr. T and Blackbird like this.

  6. #6
    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,991
    Liked
    165 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Richter View Post
    Although I'm a huge Button fan, I'm surprised by their decision. I thought for sure they would keep Kevin. After reading a few things online, Button has a good relationship with Honda and is popular with the teams current sponsors.
    I'm surprised they were considering Magnussen for so long. Button scored twice as many points as he did, has way more experience, is British, and was a factory Honda driver in the past. There will always be young talent trying to break into F1, but a guy as experienced, smart, & quick as Button is rare.

  7. #7
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Rolling Hills Estates
    Posts
    2,949
    Liked
    854 times

    Default

    In addition to his following in Japan and his sterling reputation as a person, Button outqualified the KMan 10-9, outraced him 14-3, and outscored him 26-55 (Magnussen scoring 44% of Button’s tally).

    Even so, I am sure that it was not an easy decision since the Honda MClaren team have to be looking at a fairly long time horizon; and Magnussen clearly has stupendous long term potential.

  8. #8
    Senior Member fatbillybob's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    by the beach
    Posts
    1,892
    Liked
    1486 times

    Default

    Mclaren's ditthering on this choice is a mini review of their 2014 season. Despite having A and B for 2015, they are a long long way from championship form. The are like Marie Calender pies, a lumbering corporation making decisions by committee, clinging to old pie recipes. The pies still taste OK but when was the last time you wanted to go there?

  9. #9
    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Ventura, Calif.
    Posts
    5,449
    Liked
    2243 times

    Default

    I'm glad to see this. I like Button and his driving style, and I think Alonso is one of the best, but probably either underrated or unlucky. Oh, and …

    unknown.jpeg



    I'm not sure the Honda engine is going to be a silver bullet. Didn't McLaren have Mercedes power in 2014? I think they need to sort out the car, not the engine.

  10. #10
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    not sure what you guys are talking about. Button is definitely not an A-list driver.
    When he partnered up with Hamilton, he was dominated. The year Hamilton won WDC, if Hamilton had finished in the same position as Button. McLaren would of finished something like 4th in manufacturer.

    watch races carefully, only reason Button wins is because he always does opposite in tire strategy (not a bad strategy, if you are a B-list driver). once in a while, he gets lucky and does well.

    this brings up another point about Williams. did Williams have the best car this year (or close) ? if Massa can do well in Williams. imagine what would of happened if Alonso was driving it. again, someone added up the points if Alonso had finished in the same position as Massa, Ferrari would of finished lower than mid pack in manufacturer in past few years. I would be willing to bet if Mercedes and Williams switch drivers this year, Williams probably would of won manufacturer's title, or very close to it.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-11-2014 at 10:45 AM.
    hakeem likes this.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  11. #11
    Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    Orange County
    Posts
    361
    Liked
    76 times

    Default

    At least Alonso won't be dealing with a rookie showing him up this time around.
    1:46.3X @ BRP CW13 - 11/12/15 (400 whp, TD )
    1:26.82 @ WSIR - 10/12/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:22.7X @ SOW CW - 7/31/14 (400whp, NT01)
    1:21.6X @ SOW CCW - 7/30/14 (400whp, Nt01)
    2:00.01 @ CVR CW - 9/28/13 (350whp, RS3)
    1:48.22 @ ACS - 11/23/13 (400whp, RS3)

  12. #12
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Loose Caboose View Post
    In addition to his following in Japan and his sterling reputation as a person, Button outqualified the KMan 10-9, outraced him 14-3, and outscored him 26-55 (Magnussen scoring 44% of Button’s tally)..
    I am going to say that's not bad for a rookie against a seasoned driver that' been racing Formula before Magnussen was born......
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  13. #13
    Master of Disaster SteveLevin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Location
    Sunnyvale, CA
    Posts
    2,172
    Liked
    546 times

    Default

    What's interesting is that in 3 years head-to-head, Button outscored Hamilton by 6 points. 2 fewer wins, but much better at bringing the car home.

    Steve
    bawareca likes this.

  14. #14
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    Hamilton v Button stats compared

    Lewis Hamilton vs Jenson Button ~ F1 Revs

    2010

    Lewis Hamilton(240pts) vs Jenson Button(214pts)

    Qualifying
    4.9 vs 6.9 (average qualifying position)
    14 vs 5 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
    0.447s (average lap-time Hamilton was faster by)

    Race
    3.8 vs 4.5 (average finishing position)
    10 vs 3 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)

    Hamilton Retirements - 4 (1 wheel rim failure, 1 gearbox, 2 accidents)
    Button Retirements - 2 (1 engine, 1 accident)

    Hamilton - 3 Wins & 1 Pole Position
    Button - 2 Wins & 0 Pole Positions


    Notes on 2010 stats -

    Spain, Hamilton had a wheel rim failure on the penultimate lap and didn't finish but was still officially classified 14th as he completed 90% of the race. I didn't include him as finishing a lap early skews the performance data.



    2011

    Lewis Hamilton(227pts) vs Jenson Button(270pts)

    Qualifying
    3.3 vs 4.5 (average qualifying position)
    13 vs 6 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
    0.946s (average lap-time Hamilton was faster by)

    Race
    3.8 vs 3.1 (average finishing position)
    7 vs 7 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)

    Hamilton Retirements - 3 (1 gearbox, 2 accidents)
    Button Retirements - 2 (loose wheel nut, hydraulics)

    Hamilton - 3 Wins & 1 Pole Position
    Button - 3 Wins & 0 Pole Positions


    2012

    Lewis Hamilton(190pts) vs Jenson Button(188pts)

    Qualifying
    3.1 vs 6.5 (average qualifying position)
    17 vs 3 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed qualifying)
    0.418s (average lap-time Hamilton was faster by)

    Race
    4.4 vs 5.6 (average finishing position)
    7 vs 3 (teammate finishing above other where both cars completed race)

    Hamilton Retirements - 6 (1 puncture, 1 gearbox, 3 accidents, 1 fuel pressure)
    Button Retirements - 4 (1 exhaust/differential, 2 accidents, 1 fuel system)

    Hamilton - 4 Wins & 7 Pole Positions
    Button - 3 Wins & 1 Pole Position
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 12-11-2014 at 12:06 PM.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  15. #15
    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,991
    Liked
    165 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    not sure what you guys are talking about. Button is definitely not an A-list driver.
    When he partnered up with Hamilton, he was dominated. The year Hamilton won WDC, if Hamilton had finished in the same position as Button. McLaren would of finished something like 4th in manufacturer.

    watch races carefully, only reason Button wins is because he always does opposite in tire strategy (not a bad strategy, if you are a B-list driver). once in a while, he gets lucky and does well.

    this brings up another point about Williams. did Williams have the best car this year (or close) ? if Massa can do well in Williams. imagine what would of happened if Alonso was driving it. again, someone added up the points if Alonso had finished in the same position as Massa, Ferrari would of finished lower than mid pack in manufacturer in past few years. I would be willing to bet if Mercedes and Williams switch drivers this year, Williams probably would of won manufacturer's title, or very close to it.
    Uh....

    1) Hamilton & Button were not teammates when Ham won the WDC. Kovaleinen was Hamilton's teammate then.
    2) He was not "dominated" when he was teammates with Hamilton, as the stats show. More points over all.
    3) Ham & Alonso are generally considered the 2 best guys on the grid. For Button to do as well as he did against Hamilton is impressive. Hell, Alonso was matched/beaten by Ham when they were teammates, and Ham was a rookie then.
    4) All of these guys are very close on outright pace. The Mercedes were consistently 1-1.5s/lap faster than the Williams. Hamilton & Rosberg are not 1s/lap faster than Massa & Bottas...

  16. #16
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    La Verne, California, United States
    Posts
    7,644
    Liked
    2282 times

    Default

    1) Hamilton & Button were not teammates when Ham won the WDC. Kovaleinen was Hamilton's teammate then.
    A: my mistake. not sure which year I got that number from.

    2) He was not "dominated" when he was teammates with Hamilton, as the stats show. More points over all.
    see post above. yes, Button was consistently slower.

    3) Ham & Alonso are generally considered the 2 best guys on the grid. For Button to do as well as he did against Hamilton is impressive. Hell, Alonso was matched/beaten by Ham when they were teammates, and Ham was a rookie then.
    A: that I agree. I would also put Rosberg a close 3rd.

    4) All of these guys are very close on outright pace. The Mercedes were consistently 1-1.5s/lap faster than the Williams. Hamilton & Rosberg are not 1s/lap faster than Massa & Bottas...
    A: if Massa was driving a Mercedes. he would of been >1/2 second slower (heck, Hamilton can beat your hero Button 1/2 second, see above post, Massa would of been even slower than Button). if Hamilton was driving Williams, he would of been >1/2 second faster. so that covers the 1 second gap between Mercedes and Williams.
    Supermiata S1, SuperMiata S2, Supermiata S3
    13 Tesla, ma: no engine !!
    17 GT350 !!
    08 M3 - Carmax warranty !!
    96 NSX
    06 EVO MR
    15 Mini Cooper S

  17. #17
    Smack-Talkin' Member J. Tyler's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    1,991
    Liked
    165 times

    Default

    1) Hamilton & Button were not teammates when Ham won the WDC. Kovaleinen was Hamilton's teammate then.
    A: my mistake. not sure which year I got that number from.
    * It's OK. I've been an F1 fan for a long time

    2) He was not "dominated" when he was teammates with Hamilton, as the stats show. More points over all.
    A: see post above. yes, Button was consistently slower.
    * Hamilton was slower than Rosberg this year over one lap (out-qualified 11 poles to 7). But who won WDC? More points over all. Points & race ability matter more than outright speed. This year was all about taking care of the car & tires over long runs, and Hamilton proved better at that than Rosberg, despite Rosberg being quicker over one lap.

    3) Ham & Alonso are generally considered the 2 best guys on the grid. For Button to do as well as he did against Hamilton is impressive. Hell, Alonso was matched/beaten by Ham when they were teammates, and Ham was a rookie then.
    A: that I agree. I would also put Rosberg a close 3rd.
    *Rosberg was beat by teammates Webber & Hamilton... He did really improve this year though. I'd rate Rosberg on par with Button. Very very close to the best, and can win WDC in the best car with a weaker teammate, but cannot win WDC without the best car and with a strong teammate. Hamilton & Alonso can.

    4) All of these guys are very close on outright pace. The Mercedes were consistently 1-1.5s/lap faster than the Williams. Hamilton & Rosberg are not 1s/lap faster than Massa & Bottas...
    A: if Massa was driving a Mercedes. he would of been >1/2 second slower (heck, Hamilton can beat your hero Button 1/2 second, see above post, Massa would of been even slower than Button). if Hamilton was driving Williams, he would of been >1/2 second faster. so that covers the 1 second gap between Mercedes and Williams.
    *Disagree. The F1 front-runners are all within .2-.3s/lap of each other on outright pace. How the races go depend on tire management, strategy, passing ability, luck, weather, etc; which is why Button did well against Hamilton. He is smart, makes good strategy calls, and takes care of the tires. Look at Vettel/Ricciardo -- not much of a difference between them in outright pace, but Ricciardo took care of the tires much better and made better strategy calls....and brought home way more points.

    In the 2014 Mercedes, ANY driver in the top 10 of the field would have been WDC. Hell, Pastor Maldonado would have been WDC if he was in that car with no teammate.

  18. #18
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    LA
    Posts
    1,711
    Liked
    641 times

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by J. Tyler View Post
    Hell, Pastor Maldonado would have been WDC if he was in that car with no teammate.
    And racing on tracks with no barriers

+ Reply to Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts