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Thread: Elise/Exige Super/Turbo Charged vs sorted Miata NA Turbo (like Bob Bundy)- help pick

  1. #21
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Elise should be faster given better power to weight ratio.

    Are you sure those Elise time is of a good driver ?

    There are few other factors to consider

    1. Weather is a big factor of lap time. Just by virtue that Miata racing is a lot more popular. Chances it ran in perfect weather is more common.

    2. Drafting is big also. Much more common with Miata than an Elise.
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 11-02-2015 at 07:49 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    Elise should be faster given better power to weight ratio.

    Are you sure those Elise time is of a good driver ?

    There are few other factors to consider

    1. Weather is a big factor of lap time. Just by virtue that Miata racing is a lot more popular. Chances it ran in perfect weather is more common.

    2. Drafting is big also. Much more common with Miata than an Elise.
    Yep. The more expensive the car, the worse the drivers. Are the elise guys ready to push their cars off a cliff?
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    Not Certified Slow SDSUsnowboards's Avatar
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    Those are some good points. I was also thinking that there are more miata drivers. Statistically, one would find a greater number of skilled drivers in Miatas compared to the Elise.

    I'd also expect to find more talent in the Miata camp if only because larger fields exist there, which would attract talented drivers looking for a challenge.
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    Purely on performance, NA Elise Vs SPM Miata, seems they are pretty closely matched.
    Elise seems to have an edge once modified.
    FYI: This turbo Elise has Oil Surge Pan by Moroso and fuel surge tank, therefore no oil or fuel starvation.
    Big advantage for frequent driver is Elise truly appealing cockpit.
    BIg disadvantage of Elise is cost of repair, and initial purchase price.

    Clearly for fun, Miata has plenty to offer.

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    I own both an 05 Elise and a Spec Miata. With comparable tires the Elise will be much faster than the SM. I have no experience in boosted miatas, and have no interest in boosted miata or Elise. What I can tell you for sure though is that there is zero additional fun in driving the elise over the SM. That is unless looking cooler adds to your fun. There is no way I would drive my Elise like I would drive the SM in order to be fast. My racing budget would need to grow by a factor of 5 to do that. Clams are only one part of the potential expense. If you are having to "save money" to buy a 911, I suggest that your decision is an easy one. I doubt that savings will ever grow enough to afford the 911 if tracking and abusing the Elise.

    IMO, the reason you don't see as good as drivers in more expensive cars compared to SM or SSM is exactly because even wealthy owners don't like paying for driving the car the way you need to in order to be truly fast. If you are already worried about going off in the Elise, you will never feel comfortable driving it on the edge over Phil Hill.

    My lack of interest in boosted cars is for the same reason; no more fun but a ton more money keeping highly modified engines running on the track. Yes I might be going down the straight faster, but not really going any faster than the tires allow in the corners. I love wrenching, but only enough to be driving fast!

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jamz14 View Post
    I own both an 05 Elise and a Spec Miata. With comparable tires the Elise will be much faster than the SM. I have no experience in boosted miatas, and have no interest in boosted miata or Elise. What I can tell you for sure though is that there is zero additional fun in driving the elise over the SM. That is unless looking cooler adds to your fun. There is no way I would drive my Elise like I would drive the SM in order to be fast. My racing budget would need to grow by a factor of 5 to do that. Clams are only one part of the potential expense. If you are having to "save money" to buy a 911, I suggest that your decision is an easy one. I doubt that savings will ever grow enough to afford the 911 if tracking and abusing the Elise.

    IMO, the reason you don't see as good as drivers in more expensive cars compared to SM or SSM is exactly because even wealthy owners don't like paying for driving the car the way you need to in order to be truly fast. If you are already worried about going off in the Elise, you will never feel comfortable driving it on the edge over Phil Hill.

    My lack of interest in boosted cars is for the same reason; no more fun but a ton more money keeping highly modified engines running on the track. Yes I might be going down the straight faster, but not really going any faster than the tires allow in the corners. I love wrenching, but only enough to be driving fast!

    Yeah... that's a good comment about power. Aside from unlocking more corners that you were taking flat before (which you could also unlock with smaller tires!) you could make a case for power not offering a good return on the effort.

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    Concur on all points made above.

    FYI: boosted only because "dual purpose", i.e. on backroad to pass you need power or you cannot complete the pass safely. And its fun when you can rotate car on throttle.
    As you pointed out over and over, boost and track are maintenance intense unless its factory car, and even than.

    My reason decided before asking the questions above: keep Miata.
    My emotions were strongly swayed by Elise cool chassis like a drunken sailor, but even than most emotions still were happy in a Miata.

    15 years in Miata, and counting, despite owning other and faster cars- it tells you I do like and appreciate it for it.

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    K20/K24 swap.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    K20/K24 swap.
    for Elise or Miata (yeap, they have them now) ?
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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by alpinaturbo View Post
    Purely on performance, NA Elise Vs SPM Miata, seems they are pretty closely matched.
    Elise seems to have an edge once modified.
    FYI: This turbo Elise has Oil Surge Pan by Moroso and fuel surge tank, therefore no oil or fuel starvation.
    Big advantage for frequent driver is Elise truly appealing cockpit.
    BIg disadvantage of Elise is cost of repair, and initial purchase price.

    Clearly for fun, Miata has plenty to offer.
    The Moroso pan might not be enough--I think lotus cup drivers use an accusump. For my 2zz build (in an MR2) I am using both a baffled pan AND an accusump to be safe. Also, the dual a/a oil cooler setup on the Elise is not adequate. Many use a Laminova core to cool the oil and an aftermarket radiator to handle the extra load. Apparently, that is also barely adequate. The Elise has cooling issues. I'll be using a Laminova core in my build, but the MR2 doesn't have the same cooling issues as the Elise.

    To be fair, these are concerns you'd have in almost any car with any motor, but the Miata guys have it sorted, while I've never been able to get a strait answer regarding the Elise.
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  11. #31
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDSUsnowboards View Post
    but the Miata guys have it sorted.
    turbo Miata didn't get it sorted till couple of years ago..........it took hundreds of blown Miata motors, turbo falling off, stretched turbo studs, overheating before they got it sorted.
    It will take the whole country's supply of 2zz before Elise got it figured out also......
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    K20/K24 swap.
    How do you Smog it here in CA?
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  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    turbo Miata didn't get it sorted till couple of years ago..........it took hundreds of blown Miata motors, turbo falling off, stretched turbo studs, overheating before they got it sorted.
    It will take the whole country's supply of 2zz before Elise got it figured out also......
    Even after they solve all of those things, they then need to solve the problem that they are still using the 2zz. Ha!
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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    To be honest. Aftermarket turbo track cars suck. I have had two in the past. When they run and don't blow up they are fantastic. However they have so many glitches that you are constantly tinkering instead of driving.

    Maybe at it's me getting old but I have come to the realization that if you want to go fast just buy a faster factory car for the track. An NA car is much easier to sort, specially in the ever increasing temperatures of California race tracks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    for Elise or Miata (yeap, they have them now) ?
    I know... Either. Both will be better with the K20/24

    Quote Originally Posted by Red_5 View Post
    How do you Smog it here in CA?
    I thought u can swap motors if its newer than the car, as long as you keep the emissions components and it pasees??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post

    I thought u can swap motors if its newer than the car, as long as you keep the emissions components and it pasees??
    I'll have to look into this again more seriously. I had looked into it before and I don't remember it being that easy but I could be wrong.
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  17. #37
    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif Blackbird's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    I know... Either. Both will be better with the K20/24

    I thought u can swap motors if its newer than the car, as long as you keep the emissions components and it pasees??
    That rules out the Miata for sure, and most likely the Elise as well.

  18. #38
    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    I know... Either. Both will be better with the K20/24

    I thought u can swap motors if its newer than the car, as long as you keep the emissions components and it pasees??
    This is correct. A k series would be ok in either car. I did get a couple of swaps through BAR inspection however lately the are not even playing by their own rules. They are giving you the run around and making up rules to deny approving swaps. Essentially they just want you to rebuild the stock engine. Five years ago it was a lot easier to get a swap through BAR.
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  19. #39
    Senior Member zjchaser's Avatar
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    Been a while since I've posted. Not sure which lotus cup cars you're comparing the times of but many of the drivers here would be faster in the same car so I'd take the times with a grain of salt. Which car you looking at? I might know it. Hell, I should just sell mine. Its been in my garage for years now.
    Last edited by zjchaser; 11-03-2015 at 05:21 PM.
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  20. #40
    Senior Member zjchaser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stuntman View Post
    I know... Either. Both will be better with the K20/24

    I thought u can swap motors if its newer than the car, as long as you keep the emissions components and it pasees??
    Has to be from the same type of car. cant swap motors from one to another. Old miata could install a newer gen motor with all smog equip and pass but not a honda motor....roughly.

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