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Thread: Effective Standing Starts

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Default Effective Standing Starts

    Speaking as someone who has never done a standing start, I'm curious what people use for a strategy. I've drag raced manual cars and bikes before and the launch is critical, but there was never any traffic to deal with. How do you make sense of it? It looks pretty chaotic and a lot more dangerous than a flying/rolling start.

    How do you make the most of a standing start?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    Speaking as someone who has never done a standing start, I'm curious what people use for a strategy. I've drag raced manual cars and bikes before and the launch is critical, but there was never any traffic to deal with. How do you make sense of it? It looks pretty chaotic and a lot more dangerous than a flying/rolling start.

    How do you make the most of a standing start?
    From videos it looks like it's much clearer who is going places and who isn't. With rolling starts everyone is one bump from changing from losing to winning.

    Could be speed deltas in turn 1.

    The big risk is if someone far ahead on the grid stalls it.


    All just speculation though.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    In SPM. We had about 20 standing starts last year. Emilio and I were consistently the fastest off the line. I am pretty good with clutch. But am not technical enough to explain what I do. Emilio gives a speech to all the new guys, pretty sure he will chime in soon
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    Moving to SPM, Brandywine?

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    I've only done a handful of standing starts. Even in a Miata there has to be throttle maintenance to balance between spinning the tires and stalling. I was very surprised by the wheel spin on my first standing start.
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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackbird View Post
    Moving to SPM, Brandywine?
    I'd like to try a race or two this year if I can make scheduling work, but I've always been curious about standing starts. I thought it would make an interesting discussion, a departure from "Hamilton/Rosberg is a douche bag."

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    I'd like to try a race or two this year if I can make scheduling work, but I've always been curious about standing starts. I thought it would make an interesting discussion, a departure from "Hamilton/Rosberg is a douche bag."
    Did you see Hamiltons start at Abu Dhabi?
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    Did he cheat that one too?

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    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    Did you see Hamiltons start at Abu Dhabi?
    If I did, I don't remember it.

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    Unless you have a dedicated launch control system, it's really just a roll of the dice. Biggest thing is to make sure you don't stall as it puts you at huge risk of being hit in the back. A little wheel spin is better than bogging the engine.

    Here's an in-car from a standard start during the PWC race at Sonoma. My car had no launch control, but I did leave TC on... which isn't necessarily the best thing as it can still bog/stall the engine. I basically tried to keep the RPM's at about 2/3rds redline (very hard with the clutch in as the engine just wants to keep revving) and then eased out the clutch to get the car rolling when it went green. Once it rolls I dump it (so even if it stalls, I can still bump it without coming to a stop). The TC in the 458 only activates above a certain wheel speed, which is why there's such a big risk of stalling if you dump the clutch (20+mph registered on the rears activates TC, but the fronts are only going 0-1MPH). Also, try to find the activation point for the clutch and hold it rite there.. that way you have less foot movement before you start to move. Be careful of it heating up and grabbing though, which might move you forward and cause a penalty....



    -mike

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Default Standing Starts in SuperMiata

    The greatest safety hazard in a standing start is stalling and getting rear ended. For this reason, we virtually insist that driver keep revs high and dump the clutch while adding full throttle to get the car going. Once it's moving with some wheel spin, it's a matter of rolling out of the throttle to get the car to hook back up. Trying to modulate the clutch to get a perfect launch when you can not actually hear your own engine over the noise of the others next to you with higher revs (much louder), is simply asking to get rear ended sooner or later. So in SPM at least, revs up, drop the clutch and get the car moving with wheelspin, then try to channel your inner Alonso. Once the car is moving, even slowly, you can't stall it with anything you do with the throttle and your foot isn't even on the clutch. Is it the fastest start in a 140whp Miata? No. Is it the safest way to perform a standing start when you can't hear your engine?. Yes.

    In the video below I add a few subtitles to show what's going in with our inverted grids and standing starts. The starter is instructed to not delay more than a few seconds after the last car is stationary. Our group is getting pretty good at forming up on grid quickly so whether you are P1 or P15, you want to roll to a stop assuming you'll get the green within 1s.

    Focus on starter before you roll to a stop and don't take your eyes off them.
    Check to make sure you are in 1st only once. Not 4 times like I nervously do
    Position your car so you can see the starter. Even better if you can see part of the 2nd car in front of you.
    Soon as you stop, foot is off the brake, clutch in, revs to 4000-5000.
    Hold revs steady, don't blip. Blipping requires a tiny bit of attention that you don't need to waste.
    The instant you see the starters arm begin to move, hammer the throttle and drop the clutch.
    Don't lift the throttle until you feel the car moving forward. This is key. Lifting early could lead to a stall. With only 140whp, you're not doing much of a burnout so don't worry about too much wheel spin. Most of the time the car just hooks up on warm tires and bogs a little for a perfect launch.
    Soon as the car is moving listen for your own engine and dial back revs to control wheel spin. As soon as revs drop, go WOT again and off you go.

    As William mentioned, he's got it down. Watch his videos. On you tube search "supermiata". Many race videos from all the drivers.

    Last edited by emilio700; 12-20-2014 at 09:41 PM.
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    Senior Member ELO168's Avatar
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    https://vimeo.com/63670392
    Here is my standing start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ELO168 View Post
    https://vimeo.com/63670392
    Here is my standing start.
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    Quote Originally Posted by fleadh View Post
    Unless you have a dedicated launch control system, it's really just a roll of the dice. Biggest thing is to make sure you don't stall as it puts you at huge risk of being hit in the back. A little wheel spin is better than bogging the engine.

    Here's an in-car from a standard start during the PWC race at Sonoma. My car had no launch control, but I did leave TC on... which isn't necessarily the best thing as it can still bog/stall the engine. I basically tried to keep the RPM's at about 2/3rds redline (very hard with the clutch in as the engine just wants to keep revving) and then eased out the clutch to get the car rolling when it went green. Once it rolls I dump it (so even if it stalls, I can still bump it without coming to a stop). The TC in the 458 only activates above a certain wheel speed, which is why there's such a big risk of stalling if you dump the clutch (20+mph registered on the rears activates TC, but the fronts are only going 0-1MPH). Also, try to find the activation point for the clutch and hold it rite there.. that way you have less foot movement before you start to move. Be careful of it heating up and grabbing though, which might move you forward and cause a penalty....



    -mike
    OK If nobody else is going to say it I am - this is freaking awesome to watch!

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  15. #15
    Senior Member granth's Avatar
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    Default One more from SPM at SOW Nov 2014

    Pretty good until, Ed NC with more HP (not legal) SPM gets me on the inside....then William wants to make SOW wider so he punts me, nice guy ;-)

    Last edited by granth; 12-22-2014 at 09:24 AM.

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    http://www.trackhq.com/Banners/yellowsitesponsor.gif emilio700's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by granth View Post
    Pretty good until, Ed NC with more HP (not legal) SPM gets me on the inside....then William wants to make SOW wider so he punts me, nice guy ;-)
    To be fair, it has taken the rest of us a while to get used to your counter intuitive brake checks. I realize you don't know you are doing it but you apply your brakes/chop throttle or overslow erratically. Almost every contact you had in 2014 was being rear-ended either mid turn or corner entry when you suddenly and unexpectedly decelerated with a car right behind you. Part of avoiding contact is being aware of closing speeds, entry and mid corner speeds of the cars behind you. William assumed you would take a line and entry speed roughly the same as his (his mistake). You braked earlier, much harder and dove further to the inside than most drivers when there was a following car on your LR qtr (your mistake).

    If you want to start a new discussion regarding contact, feel free.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
    To be fair, it has taken the rest of us a while to get used to your counter intuitive brake checks. I realize you don't know you are doing it but you apply your brakes/chop throttle or overslow erratically.
    As you know the subconscious mind is powerful thing, it was more about the start than the contact in this thread...
    Last edited by granth; 12-22-2014 at 11:47 AM.

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