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Thread: Educate me about track BMW, why are they so popular ?

  1. #81
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Anyone know what a stock S2K with the bumpsteer kit and hoosiers (any wheel) will do on 13CW? I see one on autotrader for $12K. How much faster with a wing?
    Didn't someone just post a video for Billy doing 2:01 in a stock S2k?

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Anyone know what a stock S2K with the bumpsteer kit and hoosiers (any wheel) will do on 13CW? I see one on autotrader for $12K. How much faster with a wing?
    I'd stay away from the 2000 - 2002 models because of the Banjo bolt problem. If you are considering an AP1, 2003 is the only model year to get. I see one where the asking price is $13,000 but the miles are very high. I paid $12,300 for an '03 AP1 with 59,900 on the odo more than 2 years ago, and prices should be going down over that time.

    S2K laptimes are well documented in the SV S2K Challenge.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    That was probably not meant to be Honda-BMW comparison.For me the S2K is much better out of the box than the bimmers we are talking about.Here is Charles Ng with 2:03.5 on a stock CR WITH WING.I am sure he or driver of his caliber can make similar times with the white E30,so I would call it even.For under $10 k you can have a nicely set-up caged E30 with reliable 240whp doing 1:57-58 with a decent driver.But anyhow,beginner tracksters,me included, are not going to extract the last few seconds from either of those cars,or any other.


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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Billy had coilovers and Charles is on street tires. If we are going to get lowest laptime out of an S2K for least money, it will involve hoosiers and may or may not include a wing.

    Also, the S2K may win in the cost department just because you can resell it afterward for most of what you paid for it without having lost a bunch of money on labor or aftermarket parts. Very little to screw up as well. Less risk of buying a bad engine.

    But yeah, reliable 240whp for $10K at around 2300lbs does sound enticing.


    Edit: huh... just found a guy selling a S50 or S52 swap "kit" for $5K. Maybe it's a rip, but I'm suspicious again...
    Last edited by robburgoon; 07-18-2012 at 09:14 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    But yeah, reliable 240whp for $10K at around 2300lbs does sound enticing.
    A stock S2K weighs about 2,800 lbs., and there is no way you could take out 500 lbs. out of it.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    He was talking about the E30.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Don't s2k owners want to comment on this? I don't know s2k details first hand.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Don't s2k owners want to comment on this? I don't know s2k details first hand.
    But the OP was about BMW's. Wasn't it
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    Cracking rear floor at the rear subframe mounting points.Most M3s have reinforcement from the factory.Well documented problem and fix,reinforcement plates available thru many sources,from OEM to made in Beijing burbs.Easily done when overhauling rear suspension(must be done anyway).
    parts might be cheap, but how about labor to do this ? what's the shop rate ? how about overhauling rear suspension.
    Miata's timing belt can be done in 40 minutes (Andrew Kidd's fame), but shop rate is 4 hours. I remember E30 is about 8 hours for timing belt..even if you diy, your time is still money.
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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    But the OP was about BMW's. Wasn't it
    The popularity of a car is usually measured against other cars. The question William might have been asking is "what are we missing?". Our bawareca claims that they are cheap to go fast in, and s2k and miata are good cars to measure that claim against.

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    parts might be cheap, but how about labor to do this ? what's the shop rate ? how about overhauling rear suspension.
    Miata's timing belt can be done in 40 minutes (Andrew Kidd's fame), but shop rate is 4 hours. I remember E30 is about 8 hours for timing belt..even if you diy, your time is still money.
    Rear suspension overhaul is pretty easy job on the E36 at least. Main issue is some special tools are needed to remove/press various bushings, but if you have access to a press the whole job could be done in 4-6 once you know what you are doing. That would include removing rear subframe, shocks, diff, rear trailing arms, etc and replacing all those bushings and balljoints as needed.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    $5 k for S50 swap is too much.Fairly reasonable if includes all parts and labor.
    There are many ways [cars] to go fast,and that is a good thing.If we didnt have any choice,that would be bad.As I mentioned I dont argue if BMW is good,bad or best,just telling my side of the story as insider.
    S2K is a good track choice and can be reselled with a good value,but what happens if you wreck it?And The sheriff chime in here,can you get your money back if you put a lot of go fast parts in it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    But the OP was about BMW's. Wasn't it
    Threadjacks are generally tolerated here. Get used to it.
    Gian likes this.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  14. #94
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    parts might be cheap, but how about labor to do this ? what's the shop rate ? how about overhauling rear suspension.
    Miata's timing belt can be done in 40 minutes (Andrew Kidd's fame), but shop rate is 4 hours. I remember E30 is about 8 hours for timing belt..even if you diy, your time is still money.
    Prices for labor may vary vastly,but there are now a few decent shops around that would charge you reasonably.Only E30 325i has a timing belt.Usually you buy a kit with pulleys,water pump,front seals and belts for ~$150-200(good quality) and another 3-4 hours or $200 for labor.Then you are good for 60 k miles.So it is usually done once or twice in the life of the car.
    E36 engines are pretty bulletproof,from time to time it needs VANOS overhaul and cooling system overhaul.Cooling system overhaul is ~$500 at most and is good for 60 k miles.There are some small things here and there that both engines need done if you start going really fast.I lost oil pressure in Riverside CCW,and the E36 needs the oil pump nut done.Some oil pan baffling and windage trays solve the problems pretty much.Now i have no oil pressure drop peaking 1.7 G at WSIR T1.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    S2K is a good track choice and can be reselled with a good value,but what happens if you wreck it?And The sheriff chime in here,can you get your money back if you put a lot of go fast parts in it.
    I don't think you can get your money out of ANY heavily modified track or race car. Sellers who add up the cost of the donor car they bought and all the parts they put on it, and try to get that amount when they sell the car are dreaming.

    My AP1 motor blew, and that is my loss to suffer. I chose to sell it as a rolling chassis for a pretty low price (IMHO) for a quick sale so I could move on to something completely different (FM). The fact is that of every car I have ever owned (and that's at least 25 cars), the S2K is the one I miss the most. I'd really like to get another one.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    E36 racecars have phenomenal resale value. I sold mine for about what I had into it for parts, including the cost of the car itself, but not including labor.

  17. #97
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    I don't think you can get your money out of ANY heavily modified track or race car. Sellers who add up the cost of the donor car they bought and all the parts they put on it, and try to get that amount when they sell the car are dreaming.
    Exactly my point.There is a east coast SE30 guy that has the best moto: "Most of my money I spent on women and cars,the rest I squandered"

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    Captain Planet tq3z's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    I'd stay away from the 2000 - 2002 models because of the Banjo bolt problem. If you are considering an AP1, 2003 is the only model year to get. I see one where the asking price is $13,000 but the miles are very high. I paid $12,300 for an '03 AP1 with 59,900 on the odo more than 2 years ago, and prices should be going down over that time.

    S2K laptimes are well documented in the SV S2K Challenge.
    What is this banjo bolt problem you speak of?
    Do you understand?

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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    "Most of my money I spent on women, cars, and booze, the rest I squandered"
    Fixed it for you . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Quote Originally Posted by tq3z View Post
    What is this banjo bolt problem you speak of?
    Ask Emilio. I just know it's an internal engine problem that was fixed for the 2003 model year AP1, and was never an issue with the AP2.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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