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Thread: Educate me about track BMW, why are they so popular ?

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    Those days that everything actually works properly (rarely), make it all worth it.
    I don't think I mentioned that Doc's FD was yellow. Dang I love yellow sports cars.
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    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

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    Senior Member pucsicsal's Avatar
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    I want an M3. And straight-cut gears.


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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    Here is one well built well driven E36.from what I know it runs fresh junkyard pull S54 engine for more than 2 seasons.I dont see many alternatives to this car.
    I know this car quite well, and it has an insane amount of money spent on it, junkyard engine or not.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    I know this car quite well, and it has an insane amount of money spent on it, junkyard engine or not.
    I didnt say it is cheap.It will take a huge amount of money to make any car as fast and reliable as this one.
    BMW (used)engines are hit or miss.May run forever,may run less than a race.Usually factory unopened engines are the ticket for longevity.Or high $$$ built engines.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    so far, reading through all the threads. the positives are:

    1. E30 OEM parts are cheap, E36 may be, not sure about the E46. (but aftermarket parts are $$$)
    2. they handle well considering its 1950 suspension design
    3. they fit big people.
    4. great track support from Midnight Oil (if you are from SOCAL)
    Short list. Aside from fitting big people and casual use sounds like the E36 is inferior to the S2K in nearly every way.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    Short list. Aside from fitting big people and casual use sounds like the E36 is inferior to the S2K in nearly every way.
    That is more than true,but i dont see how are those cars in one category.Also there is 1 decade technology gap between both.Probably the bimmer to compare to S2k would be Z4M.
    On the other hand if you put stock euro E36 M3 against stock S2K on the track they would be very,very close.Euro m3 is a very fast car,even 17 years after it's debut.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    That is more than true,but i dont see how are those cars in one category.Also there is 1 decade technology gap between both.Probably the bimmer to compare to S2k would be Z4M.
    On the other hand if you put stock euro E36 M3 against stock S2K on the track they would be very,very close.Euro m3 is a very fast car,even 17 years after it's debut.
    Don't get me wrong, they make very cool track cars, but in a bang for buck exercise for the track minded low budget hooligans that frequent this site, the S2K is clearly the better pick. That being said, you could do much worse than an e30 or e36 with how strong their aftermarket is.

    It was still well worth it for William to create the thread as with how many are out there, it's worth checking to confirm that this forum's "kart, miata, s2K, corvette(?)" ladder is still optimal for quality front engine rear drive on a budget.
    Last edited by robburgoon; 07-17-2012 at 05:44 PM.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    I got your point perfectly,but S2k aint cheap.Miata is cheap.SE30 is cheap.My car is cheap-full race prepped with 400+ hp for less than $15k(I dont count couple of thousands hours of labour that could triple or qaudruple that price).

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    I got your point perfectly,but S2k aint cheap.Miata is cheap.SE30 is cheap.My car is cheap-full race prepped with 400+ hp for less than $15k(I dont count couple of thousands hours of labour that could triple or qaudruple that price).
    S2K is indeed cheap compared to e30 and e36 (if I read the thread right) once you consider the mods needed to de-suck it. The 04+ S2K is VERY close to trackworthy out of the box. No labor to speak of. The labor gap has to be considered.

    The only thing I'd guess the S2K can't do is big power since you've started with something very nearly a race engine. Of course if you go far beyond 250whp, your consumables are gonna get nasty.

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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    My friend is doing 2:05 at Buttonwillow with his E30.Just stripped,solid bushings all around,225/15 R comps,Bilstein sport and lowering sprins.Not even coilovers.It has swapped 3.5 liter 188 bhp motor with ancient 5 speed tranny,very bad ratios and weighting much more than the stock engine.Weight distribution should be be 55%F 45%R or worse.Total~$2.5 k.
    If he swaps E36 M3 motor with tranny($3k),good set GC coilovers($2k) and fit 245 or 255 R comps he will deep under 2' for sure.If he wrecks his car,donor chassis is ~$300-700.That is what I call cheap and fun.Oh,the car is street legal and mostly driven to/from events.
    Last edited by bawareca; 07-17-2012 at 06:23 PM.

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    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    My friend is doing 2:05 at Buttonwillow with his E30.Just stripped,solid bushings all around,225/15 R comps,Bilstein sport and lowering sprins.Not even coilovers.It has swapped 3.5 liter 188 bhp motor with ancient 5 speed tranny,very bad ratios and weighting much more than the stock engine.Weight distribution should be be 55%F 45%R or worse.Total~$2.5 k.
    If he swaps E36 M3 motor with tranny($3k),good set GC coilovers($2k) and fit 245 or 255 R comps he will deep under 2' for sure.If he wrecks his car,donor chassis is ~$300-700.That is what I call cheap and fun.Oh,the car is street legal and mostly driven to/from events.
    I'm not certain, but I believe Emilio has a miata recipe or two that will beat that in speed and cost including labor. And drive/handle better.
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    Senior Member Silversprint's Avatar
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    I owned a Z4M coupe. It was beautiful car and fun to drive. However it was not faster than a S2000. It anything it was slower than a stock CR even with coilovers on the Z4M. One thing the Z4M had was very good aero right out of the box.
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  13. #73
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robburgoon View Post
    I'm not certain, but I believe Emilio has a miata recipe or two that will beat that in speed and cost including labor. And drive/handle better.
    Sure thing,but you cant neat it with S2K.You cant even get a salvaged S2K at the auction for anything close to that price.And parts are not cheap either.
    I dont argue with anyone here,just share my knowledge about BMWs,for what it's worth.If sometimes after midnight i am dreaming about going W2W the only other car I consider is a Miata.But I have to buy one of those Z3 kits,you know

  14. #74
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    Sure thing,but you cant neat it with S2K.You cant even get a salvaged S2K at the auction for anything close to that price.And parts are not cheap either.
    I dont argue with anyone here,just share my knowledge about BMWs,for what it's worth.If sometimes after midnight i am dreaming about going W2W the only other car I consider is a Miata.But I have to buy one of those Z3 kits,you know
    Let's have a price with hours of labor to put together the BMW you're describing.

  15. #75
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    I am BMW tech for the last 17 years,so i will give you a pretty good estimate.
    Donor car,broken engine-$500
    Junkyard engine and tranny-$500
    springs-$150
    Bilstein dampers-$600
    2 used race seats with harnesses -$500
    suspension and brakes overhaul-$300
    Misc-$500
    $500 to 750 could be recovered by selling the removed parts

    labor:
    complete gutting-10 hours
    engine conversion with coolant system overhaul-20 hours
    suspension and brake overhaul - 15 hours
    Misc -20 hours
    Now,the shops in the valley charge much less than $100/hour It can be anywhere between $20 to $40,but one can choose a place where they'll charge him in excess of $120/hr.Realistically ,any decent shop specialised in these cars should charge you $1500 to 2500.Also,it wont work without even partly DIY.
    If you add $2.5k more you will have a car with a reliable modern 24V engine and somewhere between $220-250 whp and close ratio tranny.
    Last edited by bawareca; 07-17-2012 at 09:01 PM.

  16. #76
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Here is a video of the said car.E30 vs 08 M3.Both guys are decent drivers with 2-4 track days at Buttonwillow and no more than 25 overall track days(at the time of the video).



    And the spoken 2:05 BW 13CW. I am sure you Rob could knock out another 2-3 seconds,which makes this "junk" amazingly fast for what it is.Oh,and I expect you to do at least 1:55 in my "junk" at the setup session that you promissed me

    Last edited by bawareca; 07-17-2012 at 09:32 PM.

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    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    I start to get E30...cheap and bigger interior than a Miata.

    still hasn't seen anything about E36 or E46 yet...don't they are have inherent issue like what Hakeem described. reinforce suspension mounts and so forth. crack sub-frame ? (or something like that).
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    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    I start to get E30...cheap and bigger interior than a Miata.

    still hasn't seen anything about E36 or E46 yet...don't they are have inherent issue like what Hakeem described. reinforce suspension mounts and so forth. crack sub-frame ? (or something like that).
    Cracking rear floor at the rear subframe mounting points.Most M3s have reinforcement from the factory.Well documented problem and fix,reinforcement plates available thru many sources,from OEM to made in Beijing burbs.Easily done when overhauling rear suspension(must be done anyway).

  19. #79
    Senior Member robburgoon's Avatar
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    Anyone know what a stock S2K with the bumpsteer kit and hoosiers (any wheel) will do on 13CW? I see one on autotrader for $12K. How much faster with a wing?

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pucsicsal View Post
    I want an M3. And straight-cut gears.

    This is an old Video. I heard this guy was on the front row. But had to do a motor swap for the race. So had to start last.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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