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Thread: Educate me about track BMW, why are they so popular ?

  1. #41
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    so far, reading through all the threads. the positives are:

    1. E30 OEM parts are cheap, E36 may be, not sure about the E46. (but aftermarket parts are $$$)
    2. they handle well considering its 1950 suspension design
    3. they fit big people.
    4. great track support from Midnight Oil (if you are from SOCAL)
    That's pretty much it. A bunch of E30 and E36 parts are interchangeable (E30 M3 control arms for example are an upgrade for the E36).

    The engines sound cool as well, not sure how much value that adds.

  2. #42
    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ucfbrett View Post
    So, if you can beat BMWs with a Datsun, why not just get a Datsun?
    Had a few Datsuns. Had 15 at one time once. Hell I was the National club owner and edditor (I know I know I can't spell woth ****, but if I sit down and really try I can) of the News letter. I even had the fastest competing Solo 2 510 in the Nation. But because 1) the areodymamics of a brick. 2) it's harder to get sponcership with an older car. 3) you can put in 20k in mods but it's still worth 5k. may be a little more these days, but still. 4) it seems other (not all but a few) racers don't like getting beat by Datsuns.
    I sold all my Datsun stuff off.

    So what did I get. A Rx7 that has all the same traits as the Datsun. Well it dose have better areo...lol

    @William I guess it's because back in the 70's in the 2.5 Trans am days. Or that I was almost 3sec faster then ther hero that had been a nation champ.

    But there is nothing wrong with a Beemer. I worked as a tech for BMW once. I even did alot of work on TC Kline's World Chalange car. That thing was fast!
    Driven a few M3's for customers. Love the way they handle. Though I didn't like that one of the newer M3's it would blip the throttle for you to rev match. Kind of pissed me off, to tell the truth (thats my job dam it).....lol
    Last edited by Gian; 07-17-2012 at 10:40 AM.
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

  3. #43
    Administrator ucfbrett's Avatar
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    I still want a 510. Maybe a wagon for a sipper DD.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    BMW's are fun to drive. Low cost to run. Beemer people hang out with beemer people. Unless you own one don't understand and you don't fit in. Sure they will talk to you, and be nice to you. Just what ever you do. Do not show up at a BMW event and take top time in a Datsun. Or you will not get your trophy for over a year after it has bounced around in the back of someones trunk.
    Same thing beating the faithful at a Porsche Club event in an Evo (no, I didn't do that, but I know someone that did). You will be a Pariah.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
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  5. #45
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    I have never raced a BMW so I can't really say about that. But I owned the following BMWs as my daily drivers, all purchased new:

    1988 528e
    1990 535i
    1992 325is
    1995 M3

    Before buying my first BMW, I drove an E30 318i through Europe with my wife (now-ex) on our honeymoon trip. I loved it so much I couldn't wait to go home and buy a BMW. I guess I'm a little bent thinking about cars on my honeymoon, but that's just me.

    Years later, I test drove an E46 3-series when they first came out, with the idea that I might trade the E36 M3. The E46 felt so soft. Every successive generation of the 3-series has gotten heavier, softer, and more laden with useless luxury doodads.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 07-17-2012 at 01:12 PM.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

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    Senior Member Neocataboi's Avatar
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    ^ i really really like e30 218i's. A close friend daily drives one, and we describe it as a 4 door Miata. It handles soo well, personally i like it more than the 6cyl models. with that said though, i have always wondered the same thing as William here. I still don't understand the love for BMWs on the track. There were once great and they made sense, but with the cars that are available today, i cant see why there is still such a following. I mean even BMW doesn't race BMW's most of the real race cars aren't even built by them more built by tuners like Dinan how replace everything including putting real suspension on their race cars that the street cars will never see.

    With everything that has been described, i don't see how an S2k or a Miata wouldn't be a better choice. Or if you want big power a Vette would be better. Just how i feel. I've never owned a BMW though, maybe owning one would make me think differently.

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    Senior Member Gian's Avatar
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    We put in a E36 M motor in a 2002 once. When we test drove it all we could do was go, Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
    That's not a Typo, I just can't spell no so well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    We put in a E36 M motor in a 2002 once. When we test drove it all we could do was go, Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
    Now that would be fun . . .
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  9. #49
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    ^^^There is a huge gap between Miata and Vette,and it is well filled by any 3 series.E30 M3s were raced succesfully all around the world with just a few allowed modifications,mostly the materials in the suspension.Suspension geometry and pickup points were grossly as on any street car,as was the 2.5 l 4 banger.330+ bhp at 9500 rpm and killing almost every competition back in the late 80s and early 90s.And yes,the 318is has a great ballance and decent power and handles really well.6 cylinder models are more nose heavy.
    Euro E36 M3 and 325i E30 are real hoot to drive.USA versions are vastly inferior.
    And BTW,even Audi has completely modified front and rear suspension for their race versions of R8 (supposed to be a supercar),so that looks normal nowadays.

  10. #50
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gian View Post
    We put in a E36 M motor in a 2002 once. When we test drove it all we could do was go, Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!
    Now that is a monster,but there are many race prepped 2002s with S14(E30 M3 motor)4 cylinder with 200-270 bhp,and those are really something.

  11. #51
    Senior Member bellwilliam's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    ^^^There is a huge gap between Miata and Vette,and it is well filled by any 3 series.E30 M3s were raced succesfully all around the world with just a few allowed modifications,mostly the materials in the suspension.Suspension geometry and pickup points were grossly as on any street car,as was the 2.5 l 4 banger.330+ bhp at 9500 rpm and killing almost every competition back in the late 80s and early 90s.And yes,the 318is has a great ballance and decent power and handles really well.6 cylinder models are more nose heavy.
    Euro E36 M3 and 325i E30 are real hoot to drive.USA versions are vastly inferior.
    And BTW,even Audi has completely modified front and rear suspension for their race versions of R8 (supposed to be a supercar),so that looks normal nowadays.

    isn't M3 (any gen) parts expensive ?
    kinda defeats the reason of going to E30 or E36 ?
    Last edited by bellwilliam; 07-17-2012 at 02:18 PM.
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  12. #52
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
    isn't M3 (any gen) parts expensive ?
    kinda defeats the reason of going to E30 or E36 ?
    Not really, no. There aren't many M specific parts in an M3 believe it or not. The only things I can think of off the top of my head are the front control arms (which are substitutable with non-M), spindles, brake stuff, and rear trailing arms. Those parts aren't particularly hard to find or expensive either new or used. The E36 USDM M engines and transmissions are genetically identical to the non-M motors and practically everything is swappable between them.
    Last edited by hakeem; 07-17-2012 at 03:12 PM.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    ^^^Euro E36 M3 and 325i E30 are real hoot to drive.USA versions are vastly inferior.
    Agreed. I was very disappointed that I could not get the 333 bhp European E36 M3 here, and had to settle for 240 bhp. BMW was afraid Americans wouldn't buy it with the increased price that the Euro motor would bring.

    But E30 M3 prices are going up. Not a car you want to turn into a track or race car at this point. More of an investment, like my '92 NSX.
    pucsicsal likes this.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  14. #54
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    E36 M3 US version is just a regular 24V I6 engine bored to 3.2 l.Parts are interchangeable with the other engines and everything comes at a fair price,used or new.Every other [real] M engine is expensive to buy,build or maintain.They are highly strung motors and a lot of fun and power,but you pay for it.As you do when you drive a high HP car.Or S2000-that is the closest thing to BMW M motor.Let's be honest,every properly tracked S2K car has blown a motor,sooner or later.
    I dont think there are many people that have chosen BMW because it is cheap to buy,build or maintain.On the other hand,i dont think that if Hakeem makes the math his FD would be cheaper than his M3.

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    On the other hand,i dont think that if Hakeem makes the math his FD would be cheaper than his M3.
    It's definitely not cheaper, but it's certainly a hell of alot faster/better/cooler/prettier/awesomer.

  16. #56
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hakeem View Post
    It's definitely not cheaper, but it's certainly a hell of alot faster/better/cooler/prettier/awesomer.
    You missed reliable

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    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bawareca View Post
    You missed reliable
    It's a turbo rotary. I'm not that stupid
    bellwilliam likes this.

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    ^^^ Once upon a time around 1994, my BMW mechanic had a car for sale at his shop. Doc Severinson's (remember him, leader of the band on the Johnny Carson Tonight Show) FD. It was beautiful. I asked my mechanic why Doc was selling it, and he said "too fragile." That's the FD. A beautiful biatch with horrible bouts of PMS.
    Last edited by Richard EVO; 07-17-2012 at 03:39 PM.
    The deposed former Sheriff of trackHQ . . .

    2006 Porsche 997 Carerra Coupe 6-MT - daily driver
    1992 Honda (Acura) NSX 5-MT - classic investment I couldn't resist and occasionally drive
    2004 Honda S2000 AP2 6-MT - track day car
    2006 Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution IX MR 6-MT - when I need a backseat, 4-doors, or a real trunk, and still want to haul ass . . .

  19. #59
    dirty smack talker hakeem's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richard EVO View Post
    ^^^ Once upon a time around 1994, my BMW mechanic had a car for sale at his shop. Doc Severinson's (remember him, leader of the band on the Johnny Carson Tonight Show) FD. It was beautiful. I asked my mechanic why Doc was selling it, ane he said "too fragile." That's the FD. A beautiful biatch with horrible bouts of PMS.
    Those days that everything actually works properly (rarely), make it all worth it.

  20. #60
    BMW Master bawareca's Avatar
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    Here is one well built well driven E36.from what I know it runs fresh junkyard pull S54 engine for more than 2 seasons.I dont see many alternatives to this car.

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